Validity - Page 2

Jim Wahl · 05-11-2007, 01:42 AM

Somebody screwed up! The bearing is a part of the assembly.

Jim Wahl
6 Time National record Holder
2239 BF/S
I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels"

GUMP · 05-11-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Somebody screwed up! The bearing is a part of the assembly.

This is also from the NHRA site.

NHRA updates stock replacement piston list and policy
11/29/2006

NHRA has announced an amendment to Section 5A of the 2007 NHRA Rulebook entitled ?Stock Cars.? The amendment relates to the newly released Stock Replacement Piston Acceptance List and reflects a change in enforcement procedure. Along with piston specifications and weight, each engine application on the list will also have a Minimum Assembly Weight that will be used for enforcement. The Minimum Assembly weight is the total of the piston, pin, rings and connecting rod.

Effective Jan. 1, 2007, a competitor's rod and piston assembly will be weighed (without bearings) and checked against the posted Minimum Assembly Weight from the Replacement Piston Acceptance List. The weight of each component will no longer be a factor, as long as the assembly meets the Minimum Assembly Weight as posted on the then-current Stock Replacement Piston Acceptance List. However, the list will also include a connecting rod weight, piston pin weight and piston ring(s) weight showing how NHRA calculates the Minimum Assembly Weight. Competitors need not match each individual component weight provided the Minimum Assembly Weight is met and provided all other applicable rules are met. All other specifications listed, such as compression distance, distance from top ring to flat of piston, etc., will still be enforced.

All values listed as ?minimum? or ?maximum? reflect the absolute minimum or maximum NHRA accepted limits. There is no tolerance on any minimum or maximum value or dimension. As with any other minimum or maximum dimension in the NHRA Rulebook, latitude or tolerance must be provided by the builder to ensure legality in the field. Pistons must still be accepted at NHRA Headquarters in Glendora, Calif. , must still have the correct number and ID, and overall configuration must remain unmodified from the accepted sample. Pistons may be lightened to achieve minimum assembly weight, but ?normal? balance procedures must be used. Therefore, techniques such as cutting the piston skirt, cutting valve reliefs, or otherwise changing the configuration of the piston from its ?as accepted? state, are prohibited. (Milling the underside of the piston head is permitted.) Gas porting of any description is prohibited. Dome height and/or dish depth dimensions are still available in the Engine Blueprint Specifications.

Any questions or comments should be directed to the NHRA Tech Department in Glendora.

I would of been just as happy if they had allowed the light stuff to slide, but this is the published rule.

Daren

Chad Rhodes · 05-11-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Somebody screwed up! The bearing is a part of the assembly.

This is also from the NHRA site.

NHRA updates stock replacement piston list and policy
11/29/2006

NHRA has announced an amendment to Section 5A of the 2007 NHRA Rulebook entitled ?Stock Cars.? The amendment relates to the newly released Stock Replacement Piston Acceptance List and reflects a change in enforcement procedure. Along with piston specifications and weight, each engine application on the list will also have a Minimum Assembly Weight that will be used for enforcement. The Minimum Assembly weight is the total of the piston, pin, rings and connecting rod.

Effective Jan. 1, 2007, a competitor's rod and piston assembly will be weighed (without bearings) and checked against the posted Minimum Assembly Weight from the Replacement Piston Acceptance List. The weight of each component will no longer be a factor, as long as the assembly meets the Minimum Assembly Weight as posted on the then-current Stock Replacement Piston Acceptance List. However, the list will also include a connecting rod weight, piston pin weight and piston ring(s) weight showing how NHRA calculates the Minimum Assembly Weight. Competitors need not match each individual component weight provided the Minimum Assembly Weight is met and provided all other applicable rules are met. All other specifications listed, such as compression distance, distance from top ring to flat of piston, etc., will still be enforced.

All values listed as ?minimum? or ?maximum? reflect the absolute minimum or maximum NHRA accepted limits. There is no tolerance on any minimum or maximum value or dimension. As with any other minimum or maximum dimension in the NHRA Rulebook, latitude or tolerance must be provided by the builder to ensure legality in the field. Pistons must still be accepted at NHRA Headquarters in Glendora, Calif. , must still have the correct number and ID, and overall configuration must remain unmodified from the accepted sample. Pistons may be lightened to achieve minimum assembly weight, but ?normal? balance procedures must be used. Therefore, techniques such as cutting the piston skirt, cutting valve reliefs, or otherwise changing the configuration of the piston from its ?as accepted? state, are prohibited. (Milling the underside of the piston head is permitted.) Gas porting of any description is prohibited. Dome height and/or dish depth dimensions are still available in the Engine Blueprint Specifications.

Any questions or comments should be directed to the NHRA Tech Department in Glendora.

I would of been just as happy if they had allowed the light stuff to slide, but this is the published rule.

Daren

well there it is, its without bearings. Now I still say 12 grams is a mistake, and unintentional, but light is light. However being torn down 4 hours before first round is wrong

Chad Rhodes
STK 2113
www.rhodesmotorsports.net

Bruce Noland · 05-11-2007, 09:04 AM

I guess the end justifies the means. The guy was illegal.

It is still a petty thing to do - four hours before eliminations. What would all these players look like if he had been legal? I hear the tech guys who had to perform the tear down were not happy about it either. No winners in this one.

Michael Beard · 05-11-2007, 09:24 AM

>> The bearing is a part of the assembly.

While I'm no mechanic, I would think that if you have to take it apart, it DISassembled. If you need the bearing to put it together, than it would logically be part of the "assembly". But, they did define it by specific components, so...

Michael Beard
Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Robyn · 05-11-2007, 09:46 AM

The debate and disussion around what should or should not be included in the "rotating assembly" is truely not the issue in this situation.

The point is - FOLLOW THE RULE BOOK!!!!!

Again, it's writen and published for a reason. When items need to be clarified, it's done so in writing for a reason.

The teardown should have never happened to begin with.

Randy Running

Dan Fletcher · 05-11-2007, 10:25 AM

this is absolutlely none of my business, but I'm just curious should such a situation arise again in the future.

The rulebook states "contestant protests must be filled with the proper officials the day prior to eliminations of that category or as outlined in writing before a protest will be accepted."

I don't read anything about the contestant being given a reasonable and fair amount of time to perform the tear down...I guess one would simply assume that to be the case. Like someone said earlier, we all work at a different pace. Not everyone is the Country Dog and can have the rod and piston out in 50 minutes...LOL.

To me, reasonable is being served with papers on one day and having to race the next. At the very least, being served first thing in the morning and racing late that afternoon. If, in fact, this person only had four hours start to finish, then that - in my humble opinion - wasn't very fair. And frankly, I don't believe NHRA would do that to someone.

Not to involve you Travis, and I'm not asking for any commentary, but could you - without compromising your position - give us some sort of time line on how this unfolded?

I'd just like to know if some form of precedant has been set...

Randall Klein · 05-11-2007, 12:56 PM

After reading these posts I have been wondering, where was, where is our Director of Sportsman's Racing, Mr Len Imbrogno? Was he on site? Who gave the final OK, Gracia? No intervention from our Sportsman's liason? Overruled?

FWIW, the first thing I do after receiving my yearly Rulebook, is to see if any pictures inside of Sportsman's cars, then throw it away. What a waste of paper and mailing costs!

I've often wondered if a car was built to EXACT Rulebook terminology....oh never mind

Randall Klein

Mike Carr · 05-11-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

I've often wondered if a car was built to EXACT Rulebook terminology....oh never mind

Randall Klein

lol....Randall, Grumpy Jenkins said many years ago, "If you build your car and follow the rulebook to a 'T', you got a guaranteed loser".

-------------------------------------
Mike Carr
Buff Daddy Motorsports
Enon Valley PA
IHRA Stock 18 HF/SA
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President, Tri-State Stock/Super Stock Association
Comp Forum Webmaster
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Bob Orme · 05-11-2007, 01:12 PM

In this instance, there was one round of qualifying, then eliminations began later the same day. Under these circumstances, there would not be a way to file a protest a day prior to eliminations.

You could either rule there be no protests of any kind when the schedule gets shuffled like it did, or you allow for protests on the same day.

05-11-2007, 01:42 AM	#11
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,842 Likes: 631 Liked 674 Times in 122 Posts	Somebody screwed up! The bearing is a part of the assembly. Jim Wahl 6 Time National record Holder 2239 BF/S I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels" __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 D2 National Open Stock Champion 1981 D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association.

05-11-2007, 09:04 AM	#14
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	I guess the end justifies the means. The guy was illegal. It is still a petty thing to do - four hours before eliminations. What would all these players look like if he had been legal? I hear the tech guys who had to perform the tear down were not happy about it either. No winners in this one. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

05-11-2007, 09:24 AM	#15
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts	>> The bearing is a part of the assembly. While I'm no mechanic, I would think that if you have to take it apart, it DISassembled. If you need the bearing to put it together, than it would logically be part of the "assembly". But, they did define it by specific components, so... Michael Beard Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing Duck Tape/Loctite Racing H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

05-11-2007, 10:25 AM	#17
Dan Fletcher Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Churchville, NY Posts: 485 Likes: 110 Liked 965 Times in 63 Posts	this is absolutlely none of my business, but I'm just curious should such a situation arise again in the future. The rulebook states "contestant protests must be filled with the proper officials the day prior to eliminations of that category or as outlined in writing before a protest will be accepted." I don't read anything about the contestant being given a reasonable and fair amount of time to perform the tear down...I guess one would simply assume that to be the case. Like someone said earlier, we all work at a different pace. Not everyone is the Country Dog and can have the rod and piston out in 50 minutes...LOL. To me, reasonable is being served with papers on one day and having to race the next. At the very least, being served first thing in the morning and racing late that afternoon. If, in fact, this person only had four hours start to finish, then that - in my humble opinion - wasn't very fair. And frankly, I don't believe NHRA would do that to someone. Not to involve you Travis, and I'm not asking for any commentary, but could you - without compromising your position - give us some sort of time line on how this unfolded? I'd just like to know if some form of precedant has been set... __________________ Dan Fletcher 1781 STK, SS, COMP, SG, SC DAN FLETCHER TRAILER SALES

05-11-2007, 09:46 AM	#16
Robyn Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The debate and disussion around what should or should not be included in the "rotating assembly" is truely not the issue in this situation. The point is - FOLLOW THE RULE BOOK!!!!! Again, it's writen and published for a reason. When items need to be clarified, it's done so in writing for a reason. The teardown should have never happened to begin with. Randy Running

05-11-2007, 12:56 PM	#18
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 784 Likes: 45 Liked 317 Times in 66 Posts	After reading these posts I have been wondering, where was, where is our Director of Sportsman's Racing, Mr Len Imbrogno? Was he on site? Who gave the final OK, Gracia? No intervention from our Sportsman's liason? Overruled? FWIW, the first thing I do after receiving my yearly Rulebook, is to see if any pictures inside of Sportsman's cars, then throw it away. What a waste of paper and mailing costs! I've often wondered if a car was built to EXACT Rulebook terminology....oh never mind Randall Klein

05-11-2007, 01:12 PM	#20
Bob Orme Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 47 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In this instance, there was one round of qualifying, then eliminations began later the same day. Under these circumstances, there would not be a way to file a protest a day prior to eliminations. You could either rule there be no protests of any kind when the schedule gets shuffled like it did, or you allow for protests on the same day.