Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights - Page 2

gmonde · 08-03-2013, 10:27 AM

accusump makes a real nice set up,instead of a ball valve it has an electric solenoid that has a hobbs switch on it (25 psi or 50 psi) if oil pressure drops below those pressures it will open and feed back to the oil pump ,, it also acts as a prelube for engine before cranking,,,, I ran this on my car it works gmonde

Jody Lang · 08-05-2013, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Panzino

Gents, how are all of you who shut the engine down at the traps keeping the powerglide alive?? Roller bearings? Run high fluid level?? Other tricks?? Pretty sure some of the recent glide issues I have been having are from this... Anybody run an oil pressure accumulator so that you dont have to kill the engine in the lights to keep oil pressure whilst braking hard??

Any and all input welcome.

Kevin

Kevin, what issues are you having?

Kevin Panzino · 08-05-2013, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Lang

Kevin, what issues are you having?

Jody, burnt up band and high clutches, even though they are not slipping at all during the pass....

Jody Lang · 08-05-2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Panzino

Jody, burnt up band and high clutches, even though they are not slipping at all during the pass....

I don't think shutting motor off would do this. I shut mine off and have only burned up high gear clutches when my line pressure was too low. Do you know what your pressure is?

Does it still shift hard before you take it apart?

Aluminum drum?

Kevin Panzino · 08-05-2013, 04:11 PM

Jody, thank you very much for the reply and info. Yes,I tend to agree with you, but Im grasping at this point... Line pressure is 150 Psi. 5 cutches in high pack, 3 in reverse pack. Std Red lining Band, and yes aluminum drum. Fluid started getting a bit burnt smelling, and then I noticed a bit of flare on the shift on the last pass. So then I pulled it out and found the burnt frictions and steels... I went all through it this weekend and took the two valve body halves apart and cleaned it all out. Found a fair amount of friction material and debris in some passages... Havent had the valve body apart in ages, so this debris may have been part of it....

I also took a very close look at the low band servo piston rings, and did an air test on it, since leakage past these will bleed into the high clutch apply, and cause drag/heat/losses. There was some leakage, but not terrible. I drilled an .070" hole through the high apply piston (similar to what you do to the reverse piston when installing the t-brake), to 'bleed' off any slight leakage past the servo rings while in low. Right now, I am learning towards that as being the problem all along. The car is down almost a full tenth in 60 ft, and at least .2 in 1/4 but its not slipping (RPMs jive with speed and known converter slip)... I think the high clutch pack might have been dragging a bit all along in low gear... Also thinking about switching to an o-ring style servo piston instead of twin cast iron rings....

Adger Smith · 08-06-2013, 01:55 AM

Have you ever tried one of the solid teflon "O" rings. I would bump the line pressure to 170. I have always had difficulties with lower pressures.I fixed up a fixture to put my leakdown tester on the servo and tried a bunch of different servo's and ring combinations.You do get rid of the cushion spring?? Which way do you space the servo when you get rid of the cushion spring? The double "O" ring will seal, but won't release as clean as a single ring. If you are going to use the twin ring try putting two of the stock Alum rings with the coated face on that servo. Seals and moves well.

Jody Lang · 08-06-2013, 01:55 AM

How fast is your car and what does it weigh? I found with mine 10.80s 3400 lbs that 150 wasn't enough. It would burn up high gear clutches in 50 runs or so.

Kevin Panzino · 08-06-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Lang

How fast is your car and what does it weigh? I found with mine 10.80s 3400 lbs that 150 wasn't enough. It would burn up high gear clutches in 50 runs or so.

Jody, 10.40's at 3280 lbs (has been 10.20's before the woes) Probably very similar stresses on the glide as yours. How high did you have to go above 150? my engine is pretty weak compared to most 350 255/294's so id hate to rob any more power than i have to. Ill try to get a 175 psi spring and try that as Adger recommended. Also going to look into the Teflon ring.

Many thanks for the help guys!!

Jeff Jewell · 08-06-2013, 02:29 PM

Kevin,

In our Corvettes, we had to bump the line pressure up to around 200 PSI and run 6 clutches to get them to live. Admittedly, this is in a 3300 lb Big Block car, so it's making a little more power than your combo. We have always put the trans in neutral and shut them off. No trans issues from doing that.

Also, and I'm sure I'll hear a lot of arguments about this, don't shift in the burnout. Do the burnout in high gear only. The shift in the burnout is one of the hardest things on the trans. When we started doing that years ago, the trans life increased exponentially. Just make sure the tires are wet and stab the gas. I have done this with all the cars I have driven (fast / slow / big tire / small tire doesn't matter) for years with no issues.

Hope this helps.

Kevin Panzino · 08-06-2013, 08:12 PM

Well, I suppose that may be the case. Strange thing is that I don 'see' any slip... But there could be 1-200 RPM of slip, and I might not notice.. Could be slipping during the shift as well, which I wouldnt really be able to tell, since its a glide, and thus it gets back down on the converter anyway, and it would be hard to tell.

The other thing that I find a bit strange, is that I can get the trans plenty hot, just in warming up the engine in park and not moving the car at all. That makes me think there is something rubbing in the trans even sitting there in park... In the time it takes to get the enging up to 160F, the trans is 150F, just sitting there... Do you folks see the same thing, or is this out of line ???

Kevin

08-03-2013, 10:27 AM	#11
gmonde Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 615 Likes: 56 Liked 166 Times in 59 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights accusump makes a real nice set up,instead of a ball valve it has an electric solenoid that has a hobbs switch on it (25 psi or 50 psi) if oil pressure drops below those pressures it will open and feed back to the oil pump ,, it also acts as a prelube for engine before cranking,,,, I ran this on my car it works gmonde

08-05-2013, 04:11 PM	#15
Kevin Panzino Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 532 Likes: 257 Liked 599 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Jody, thank you very much for the reply and info. Yes,I tend to agree with you, but Im grasping at this point... Line pressure is 150 Psi. 5 cutches in high pack, 3 in reverse pack. Std Red lining Band, and yes aluminum drum. Fluid started getting a bit burnt smelling, and then I noticed a bit of flare on the shift on the last pass. So then I pulled it out and found the burnt frictions and steels... I went all through it this weekend and took the two valve body halves apart and cleaned it all out. Found a fair amount of friction material and debris in some passages... Havent had the valve body apart in ages, so this debris may have been part of it.... I also took a very close look at the low band servo piston rings, and did an air test on it, since leakage past these will bleed into the high clutch apply, and cause drag/heat/losses. There was some leakage, but not terrible. I drilled an .070" hole through the high apply piston (similar to what you do to the reverse piston when installing the t-brake), to 'bleed' off any slight leakage past the servo rings while in low. Right now, I am learning towards that as being the problem all along. The car is down almost a full tenth in 60 ft, and at least .2 in 1/4 but its not slipping (RPMs jive with speed and known converter slip)... I think the high clutch pack might have been dragging a bit all along in low gear... Also thinking about switching to an o-ring style servo piston instead of twin cast iron rings.... Last edited by Kevin Panzino; 08-05-2013 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Spelling

08-06-2013, 01:55 AM	#16
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,364 Likes: 456 Liked 694 Times in 270 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Have you ever tried one of the solid teflon "O" rings. I would bump the line pressure to 170. I have always had difficulties with lower pressures.I fixed up a fixture to put my leakdown tester on the servo and tried a bunch of different servo's and ring combinations.You do get rid of the cushion spring?? Which way do you space the servo when you get rid of the cushion spring? The double "O" ring will seal, but won't release as clean as a single ring. If you are going to use the twin ring try putting two of the stock Alum rings with the coated face on that servo. Seals and moves well. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 08-06-2013 at 01:58 AM. Reason: sp

08-06-2013, 01:55 AM	#17
Jody Lang Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 299 Likes: 28 Liked 81 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights How fast is your car and what does it weigh? I found with mine 10.80s 3400 lbs that 150 wasn't enough. It would burn up high gear clutches in 50 runs or so.

08-06-2013, 02:29 PM	#19
Jeff Jewell Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bangor, PA Posts: 182 Likes: 41 Liked 172 Times in 36 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Kevin, In our Corvettes, we had to bump the line pressure up to around 200 PSI and run 6 clutches to get them to live. Admittedly, this is in a 3300 lb Big Block car, so it's making a little more power than your combo. We have always put the trans in neutral and shut them off. No trans issues from doing that. Also, and I'm sure I'll hear a lot of arguments about this, don't shift in the burnout. Do the burnout in high gear only. The shift in the burnout is one of the hardest things on the trans. When we started doing that years ago, the trans life increased exponentially. Just make sure the tires are wet and stab the gas. I have done this with all the cars I have driven (fast / slow / big tire / small tire doesn't matter) for years with no issues. Hope this helps.

08-06-2013, 08:12 PM	#20
Kevin Panzino Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 532 Likes: 257 Liked 599 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Well, I suppose that may be the case. Strange thing is that I don 'see' any slip... But there could be 1-200 RPM of slip, and I might not notice.. Could be slipping during the shift as well, which I wouldnt really be able to tell, since its a glide, and thus it gets back down on the converter anyway, and it would be hard to tell. The other thing that I find a bit strange, is that I can get the trans plenty hot, just in warming up the engine in park and not moving the car at all. That makes me think there is something rubbing in the trans even sitting there in park... In the time it takes to get the enging up to 160F, the trans is 150F, just sitting there... Do you folks see the same thing, or is this out of line ??? Kevin