Did I really see this? - Page 2

bill dedman · 08-28-2007, 05:16 PM

I don't know if this is significant in any way RE Stock Eliminator, but I have been amazed at how quick some of the Oriental cars (many, built in the US) are.

I was 26 years old and a local strip (Des Moines, IA) Stocker tech man when th '64 GTO's hit the strips. I vividly remember that most of the Tri-Power 4-speed versions that were running on (skinny) OEM tires, and with buttoned up exhaust, and were showroom stock, struggled to run much quicker than 15-flat. Add slicks, headers, and a 4.56 gear along with a limited slip, and yes, you had a 13-second car, but most of the ones I saw running, ran 14.80's... through the mufflers, on street tires.

Car and Driver has recently road tested two cars that beat that number by half a second in showroom trim, and they're both FWD cars and both automatics.

The 2007 Toyota Avalon ran 14.40 at 99 mph, while the marginally-lighter '07 Toyota Camry with the same engine, ran 14.30 at the same 99 mph.

These are soccer-mom, grocery getters with NO "performance" pretentions. They share a normally-aspirated 3.5-liter (213.5 cid) 60-degree V6. At 268 HP, they make a little over 1.25 hp per cubic inch in showroom condition. If a Viper made that much power per cube, it would have 626 horsepower...

They're both about a half-second quicker than a showroom '64, 4-speed, Tri-Power GTO, if my so-called "memory" serves me correctly.

Dunno if either or both will ever make it into the classification guide (They're both assembled in the USA), but it seemed to me to be food for thought... Pretty quick for soccer-mom transportation, methinks....

Chris Hill · 08-28-2007, 10:03 PM

A 122 in3 engine factored at 197 hp. That's 5hp more than our little v-6. At that rating, it will be a challenge to run under the index. It's a 14 lb/hp class.

Jim Wahl · 08-29-2007, 12:34 AM

In AF/S it would have to weigh 2731. In BF/S it would have to weigh 3420. Civics shipping weight is 2804. .472 lift cam, 11.0 comp ratio, 60MM TB. I'm not worried!

Mike Meier · 08-29-2007, 06:57 PM

I'm suprised that they haven't been allowing foreign pick-up trucks in Stock all along. I know there is that one year of Mitsubishi in there but I have never seen anyone run one. Also, I see that Nissan is in the engine specs for 1993. What car/truck eligible for Stock used that?

Earle Holt · 08-29-2007, 07:01 PM

68 3835 O/SA Rob Goins, Plymouth MI, '98 Mustang 12.497 13.45 -0.953
(from the Indy qualifying sheet)

Why wouldn't this car be in one of the FI classes? I'm sure it's fuel injected.

JRyan · 08-29-2007, 11:38 PM

Even more amazing is the fact that THE CAR OF NHRA for years, the Pontiac Grand Prix & Grand Prix GTP are not even classified in the tech manuals. We had two we were going to run, and neither Len I., or any of the honchos of the Grand Prix Specialty firms were able to break down the GM barrier. Len even mentioned those cars when they added the FWD classes. NO LUCK. So we sold the cars.

Well, I guess that's not so bad. Look at all the $$$$ we saved.

Jerry

G Schenck · 08-30-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earle Holt

68 3835 O/SA Rob Goins, Plymouth MI, '98 Mustang 12.497 13.45 -0.953
(from the Indy qualifying sheet)

Why wouldn't this car be in one of the FI classes? I'm sure it's fuel injected.

Earle, the computer system is not always up to date. He might have registered a car in carb class and received another ride. Case in point. Lee Zane driving a 98 camaro running H/SA and J. Allen Sherman racing his Grand Am in SS/AH , which he registered his Grand Am but I believe he is driving Steve Kent's 68 Barracuda.

Greg

Earle Holt · 08-30-2007, 08:46 PM

Thanks, you were right Greg. He actually ran H/FIA according to the class runoffs.

08-28-2007, 05:16 PM	#11
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did I really see this? I don't know if this is significant in any way RE Stock Eliminator, but I have been amazed at how quick some of the Oriental cars (many, built in the US) are. I was 26 years old and a local strip (Des Moines, IA) Stocker tech man when th '64 GTO's hit the strips. I vividly remember that most of the Tri-Power 4-speed versions that were running on (skinny) OEM tires, and with buttoned up exhaust, and were showroom stock, struggled to run much quicker than 15-flat. Add slicks, headers, and a 4.56 gear along with a limited slip, and yes, you had a 13-second car, but most of the ones I saw running, ran 14.80's... through the mufflers, on street tires. Car and Driver has recently road tested two cars that beat that number by half a second in showroom trim, and they're both FWD cars and both automatics. The 2007 Toyota Avalon ran 14.40 at 99 mph, while the marginally-lighter '07 Toyota Camry with the same engine, ran 14.30 at the same 99 mph. These are soccer-mom, grocery getters with NO "performance" pretentions. They share a normally-aspirated 3.5-liter (213.5 cid) 60-degree V6. At 268 HP, they make a little over 1.25 hp per cubic inch in showroom condition. If a Viper made that much power per cube, it would have 626 horsepower... They're both about a half-second quicker than a showroom '64, 4-speed, Tri-Power GTO, if my so-called "memory" serves me correctly. Dunno if either or both will ever make it into the classification guide (They're both assembled in the USA), but it seemed to me to be food for thought... Pretty quick for soccer-mom transportation, methinks.... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 08-28-2007 at 05:29 PM.

08-28-2007, 10:03 PM	#12
Chris Hill Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 653 Likes: 8 Liked 238 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Did I really see this? A 122 in3 engine factored at 197 hp. That's 5hp more than our little v-6. At that rating, it will be a challenge to run under the index. It's a 14 lb/hp class.

08-29-2007, 12:34 AM	#13
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,842 Likes: 631 Liked 674 Times in 122 Posts	Re: Did I really see this? In AF/S it would have to weigh 2731. In BF/S it would have to weigh 3420. Civics shipping weight is 2804. .472 lift cam, 11.0 comp ratio, 60MM TB. I'm not worried! __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 D2 National Open Stock Champion 1981 D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association. Last edited by Jim Wahl; 08-29-2007 at 12:40 AM.

08-29-2007, 06:57 PM	#14
Mike Meier Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Webster, TX Posts: 317 Likes: 103 Liked 40 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Did I really see this? I'm suprised that they haven't been allowing foreign pick-up trucks in Stock all along. I know there is that one year of Mitsubishi in there but I have never seen anyone run one. Also, I see that Nissan is in the engine specs for 1993. What car/truck eligible for Stock used that? __________________ Mike Meier "World's most expensive DF/S" 2007 Chevy Cobalt....because suffering through owning an AMC Stocker wasn't enough

08-29-2007, 07:01 PM	#15
Earle Holt Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 194 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	One other question about classifications 68 3835 O/SA Rob Goins, Plymouth MI, '98 Mustang 12.497 13.45 -0.953 (from the Indy qualifying sheet) Why wouldn't this car be in one of the FI classes? I'm sure it's fuel injected. __________________ Earle Holt 1055 Stock

08-29-2007, 11:38 PM	#16
JRyan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 643 Likes: 29 Liked 105 Times in 29 Posts	Re: Did I really see this? Even more amazing is the fact that THE CAR OF NHRA for years, the Pontiac Grand Prix & Grand Prix GTP are not even classified in the tech manuals. We had two we were going to run, and neither Len I., or any of the honchos of the Grand Prix Specialty firms were able to break down the GM barrier. Len even mentioned those cars when they added the FWD classes. NO LUCK. So we sold the cars. Well, I guess that's not so bad. Look at all the $$$$ we saved. Jerry

08-30-2007, 08:46 PM	#18
Earle Holt Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 194 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Did I really see this? Thanks, you were right Greg. He actually ran H/FIA according to the class runoffs. __________________ Earle Holt 1055 Stock