Stock and Super Stock qualiying

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Fred Elsass

What is the purpose????????????????????


I did an analyses of the top ten qualifiers several years ago and very seldom are they in the semi's


If you doubt this have NITRO JOE do it.



The only possible positive is you might get a bye run.



If you can run the index you are competitive.


I guess it is all EGO,. You know the mine is bigger than yours thing.


Oh well, have a go at me, will check back on your responses in a couple of weeks. It is ok to call me an A#$ H&**.


Just asking


Sarge

Some play the ladder, but most that do don’t have the car and hp to be number one.

I will say that because NHRA execs are no longer racers they don’t really understand how to support performance classes.

there are not as many incentives for racers to try and make their combos the best they can be.

On top of that, there are some combos that are so soft,the car can be really set up poorly and still look good on paper.

When you have cars that run well for what they are, they are efficient and well tuned, that is a satisfying moment even if not a number one qualifier.

My opinion is that everyone can have their own opinion. There is nothing wrong with having a goal to be number 1. That is not a bad thing in my view.

I do think the analysis would be interesting to see if there are any qualifying spots or ranges that equal more wins

. I would expect that if you analyze those racers that won the most races. Look to see where they qualified.

it might be that they qualify where they think it is best for them at thst race when they can.

Because very few can actually capture number one, it is naturally not going to produce the most wins.

I think if NHRA actually made qualifying meaningful instead of a participation award, the statistics would be different.

If a racer had to actually qualify to “make” the field, they would not be sandbagging or bring a car that was not prepared to have a shot to get in.

Maybe then , AHFS would work better for cars that are just ridiculous in terms if their low hp factors.

[Terry Cain]

Originally Posted by james schaechter

If a racer had to actually qualify to “make” the field, they would not be sandbagging or bring a car that was not prepared to have a shot to get in.

Maybe then , AHFS would work better for cars that are just ridiculous in terms if their low hp factors.

Jim, They did that years ago, It was called class winner runs eliminator, the rest go home.

[Rory McNeil]

Like MJ said earlier, if you didn`t have qualifying, you would have random pairing first round. After that , would you stay with random pairing to the finals, or would you do like the Super categories, where 1rst round is random, then laddered. And if so, would you base the ladder on quickest ETs, best reaction time, closest to the dial under, or some other criteria. For Stock & S/S, I think the present model serves the purpose, and allows the fat guys that want to show their hand, battle for the #1 spot, the strategists (try to) play the ladder position game, and everybody else, just have somebody in the other lane for round one. I have never qualified in the top 16, or contended for the "points chase", but I do like the idea of rewarding the top 3, 5, 10 or whatever qualifiers, some "little" points , which may cut back on some of the 1000 foot games and jockeying around on the ladder. JMO

[BILL TAYLOR]

Originally Posted by james schaechter

Some play the ladder, but most that do don’t have the car and hp to be number one.

I will say that because NHRA execs are no longer racers they don’t really understand how to support performance classes.

there are not as many incentives for racers to try and make their combos the best they can be.

On top of that, there are some combos that are so soft,the car can be really set up poorly and still look good on paper.

When you have cars that run well for what they are, they are efficient and well tuned, that is a satisfying moment even if not a number one qualifier.

My opinion is that everyone can have their own opinion. There is nothing wrong with having a goal to be number 1. That is not a bad thing in my view.

I do think the analysis would be interesting to see if there is any qualifying spots or ranges that equal more wins

. I would expect that if you analyze those racers that won the most races. Look to see where they qualified.

it might be that they qualify where they think it is best for them at thst race when they can.

Because very few can actually capture number one, it is naturally not going to produce the most wins.

I think if NHRA actually made qualifying meaningful instead of a participation award, the statistics would be different.

If a racer had to actually qualify to “make” the field, they would not be sandbagging or bring a car that was not prepared to have a shot to get in.

Maybe then , AHFS would work better for cars that are just ridiculous in terms if their low hp factors.

I think the stats will show that most of the heavy hitters, ie Flecher,Santangelo, Lang etc.are very seldom if ever in the top half of the qualifying sheet, and we all know all too well where they usually end up!
Bill Taylor B/S 1005.

[SSDA Hemi]

Originally Posted by BILL TAYLOR

I think the stats will show that most of the heavy hitters, ie Flecher,Santangelo, Lang etc.are very seldom if ever in the top half of the qualifying sheet, and we all know all too well where they usually end up!
Bill Taylor B/S 1005.

Don't kid yourself though that they qualify based on performance. The ladder is the first move in the "chess" game. It is very clear in comp eliminator but those who don't think the ladder is manipulated for better odds are just not thinking like a champion.

Watch the Worner brothers qualify, usually in direct succession. If you think that is by chance or very easy to do... those 2 deserve to be world champs

Also, first round bye is good, but Bye-run Sunday morning is even better. Qualifying position is definitely played by the champs. Where is Bobby Fazio with his ladder book based on qualifying lmao!!

[DG]

Fred your right, nowadays qualifying doesn't mean to much other than to set the ladder and maybe get a bye run. The real question is would our class be more interesting and fun if qualifying did matter more?

The are lots of ways to incentivize qualifying. Here are a few ideas that I have seen tossed around:

1A). Points for qualifying. Minimum 17 qualified cars; same amount for Nationals and Divisionals. cars --> Top 5 qualifiers get 5 points, 4, 3, 2, and 1 point.
17-32 cars --> Top 3 qualifiers get 3 points, 2 points, and 1 point.
33-64 cars --> Top 4 qualifiers get 4 points, 3 points, 2 points, and 1 point.
65-128 cars --> Top 5 qualifiers get 5 points, 4, 3, 2, and 1 point.

1B) Points for setting a record. Maximum 2 records per year. 1st record --> 10 points, 2nd record --> 5 points

1C) Points for Class Eliminations 2 cars in Class --> 10 points
3-4 cars in Class --> 20 points, 10 RU
5-8 cars in Class --> 30 points, 20 RU, 10 Semi
9-16 cars in Class --> 40 points, 30 RU, 20 Semi, 10 C2
17-32 cars in Class--> 50 points, 40 RU, 30 Semi, 20 C3, 10 C2
You can only attain the qualifying and class bonus points at your claimed top 3 nationals and top 5 divisionals. They add to your total for that event. If you are claimed out or they are part of a “low point” event that is not counted then you don’t get those points. Points for setting records are always counted.

2). Higher qualified cars get lane choice. No more coins.

3). Grade Points: Qualifying points with a twist. The twist would be points are awarded to top ten qualifiers (10-1), ten cumulative qualifying points equals one grade point.

4) Top Qualifier award: a low qualifier award at each race for stock and super stock. It could be quite an honor to receive that award. A simple plaque recognizing the #1 qualifier would be enough for a lot of racers.

5) Qualified Fields at National Events: Allow an extra 10 cars over the quota to enter Stock and Superstock at National Events and only the top qualifiers within quota limit run the eliminator.

While many will not agree with incentivizing qualifying, I think a combination of a few of the above ideas could help the AHFS work properly and really appeal to performance oriented competitors.

Flame away, Darin Grossi

[MR DERBY CITY]

No flames here Darin , I like the way you think. Unfortunately , NHRA will not do anything that means more work for their already depleted staff. D-2 has low qualifier awards at their points meets sponsored by the Volkman family. I am sure you have seen the photos on here. A big SHOUTOUT to Michael, Emily , and Mattie Case Volkman. Perhaps you could find a sponsor out WEST ? Or one sponsor for stock and one sponsor for superstock? Back in the day IHRA gave the highest qualified car lane choice, no coin flip. I really like this idea but may too many ( ) racers would cry a river over this. It’s such an uphill battle to put the Performance back in stock / superstock racing. I would like to see every national event except Indy and the SPORTSnationals allow 85 cars to enter and qualify for 64 spots. 64 cars and no bye runs. Of course this would not work at Seattle and Sonoma. It’s unfortunate that this would not fly with NHRA because it doesn’t fit their business model, if they even have one ….LOL.

[BILL TAYLOR]

Originally Posted by SSDA Hemi

Don't kid yourself though that they qualify based on performance. The ladder is the first move in the "chess" game. It is very clear in comp eliminator but those who don't think the ladder is manipulated for better odds are just not thinking like a champion.

Watch the Worner brothers qualify, usually in direct succession. If you think that is by chance or very easy to do... those 2 deserve to be world champs

Also, first round bye is good, but Bye-run Sunday morning is even better. Qualifying position is definitely played by the champs. Where is Bobby Fazio with his ladder book based on qualifying lmao!!

I know they could all qualify higher, what they're doing is part of the "chess" game as you said, and they're pretty durn good at it!

[Kevin Panzino]

Why, why would anyone even bring this up….

I just don’t know why some people insist on poking the bear. The bear that affords us the opportunity to race our special, pricy, labor intensive cars/classes, which aren’t contested in anything resembling the traditional format in any other sanctioning body in the country.

Will you folks finally be happy if they just pull the plug on our classes?

We require a lot of work on their part. Scales, fuel check, ladders, tech, hp indexes, pairing. And then you all just whine and beat up on them more. At what point do they say, enough with these primadonnas and all that extra work.

I know a lot of you cherish the old days. But the old days also had you going home for the eliminator if you didn’t win class. It had you working on your stuff in a hotel parking lot at night because you couldn’t stay at the track.

Can we please just enjoy what we have, and understand we aren’t the only racers paying the entry fees? And that the real revenue that keeps our sanctioning body alive is the spectator admission revenue at national events? It’s extremely simple math to confirm that.

Kp

[ausby]

i wish they would ladder super gas up 1st rd. have us qualified and laddered up from the get go.