Cheating [2-step And Buttons]

[stockracer]

Griffith...How does your leaving .07-.1 before the green come in to effect with some one who is blocking? Blocking is esintally a pro tree, right? And the A-B-C cars are built to chase, Not for buttons, I can block and use a button in a 1.60 60' car...I know of plent of L-M cars the 60' with that! As far as class combination goes...I hate to see what it will cost to win class in B-C-D when theres 15 per class! Cost goes up, payout goes down! I may have to take everything back that ive ever said about the I-side, swallow my pride and go race over there!

Bring Back Deepstaging!
Leave The Buttons!
Give Electro-Magnet Clutch Pedals!
Leave The Classes The Same!
Leave The Indexes!
Change Change The AHFS...-1.10 under get auto 3hp everytime no matter where its at! Average of -.4 Gets 3hp Back! And Make It Count For Every Run, Not Just Qual/1st rd. Class!

GO RACING!!!

it sounds to me that some of the stick guys
forget the fact that you still have to hold the car with your left foot and release the car with the same foot.weather your using a button or not you are stiill using both feet.

joe mocci

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by Cam

What would be that plan to launch a stick car without a 2 step?

I still have the factory ECM in the car. If they say bye bye to two-steps then I will just go back in there and set the Park/Neutral Rev Limiter to what I want. Not much can be said about the paramaters of the factory ECM.

stockracer, I don't think you get what Tim is saying. At this point in time slower cars have the ability to leave off of the flash due to the use of a two-step, but when you take it away, only the fast cars can leave on the flash.

So in effect LEDs, no 2-step, and no deep staging have ruled out a real slow car.

[stockracer]

Ok...I see...I didnt realize who 'Beth" was but that is a slower car...

[jdfpam]

Stockracer,
Honestly, IHRA isn't bad at all and everyone I know in stock is friendly with eachother and would welcome you.



Joe Mocci,
I don't think that this whole two step issue was started to accuse peole of cheating. I think it is part of it, since buttons and two steps really open the door for those who want to cheat. I don't know if anyone is or not, but I also know that we never really get checked. Maybe that would change if tech would hire an electronic wiz and turn him loose on some people. Would be interesting.


Jeff Day

Nice Post...stocker Who Knows Nhra Felt The Fi Cars Needed There Own Classes,now They Feel Differently,maybe The Ruling On Deep Staging Could Be Reconsidered Also. ......question For Nhra??? What Was The Reason Deep Staging Was Banned???was It Because If You Bitch Enough You Get Your Way?when Deep Staging Was The Hot Topic I Remember Racers Saying The Deep Stagers Would Play Games On The Starting Line.if Anyone Was At A Disadvantage It Was The Guy Going Deep.lets See You Have Deep On The Window,you Finsh Your Burnout
And Your Opponet Has All Ready Knocked Out 2 Bulbes,plus The Auto Start To Deal With. Now Whos Getting ****ed??but Thats Ok Because Its My Choice To Go Deep,all I Ask Is To Have That Choice Again.

Joe Mocci

[Beth Denysenko]

Originally Posted by stockracer

Ok...I see...I didnt realize who 'Beth" was but that is a slower car...

Made my quickest ever pass this past weekend - 12.69 (1.06 under with current indexes). My stocker is a 302 convertible with min. weight of 3610 lbs. Went a total of 4 rounds between two races last weekend, plus three qualifiing hits and I didn't cross ONE stocker slower than mine (they were there, I just never ended up with one next to me). I have never chased yet infact.

Kandra, my two step is activated with a switch on the console - I activate between pre-stage bulbs and I turn it off after I pull the 2-3, so when I brake after the run it is off. Makes a ton of racket if you forget! LOL

[Kandra Villani]

Beth: Lane's car, which I was fortunate to drive again and technically blow it up for him, since his first pass the following race (ET Finals) was where the bearing siezed on him, has the button on the brake pedal, up in the top, and is activated ONLY in low gear, the chances of hitting it on the top end are nil, but his car can finally stall at 3200 rpm, when I drove the car in 1997, I had to 2 foot it and the MOST stall we ever got was around 1800 rpm. The 2 step helped with some ET for him, and yes consistancy. He's battled the index (being about .25 under at the most) since 1997, the 2 tenths they are taking away puts him back on the index, taking away his 2 step will ensure he can't run the index. His combo is a difficult one, but because there is ONE other car that threw a lot of $$$ at it, he can't seem to catch a break. Sad, he's TRULY one of the FINEST most talented racers, and most oft NOT mentioned when talking about some of the "hitters" there is. It will be sad to not have him in Stock anymore.

Kandra

[Beth Denysenko]

Anything that will drive people away from this sport is sad. This two step issue seems to hurt more than it will help. Will people stop racing if they stay? No. Will people stop racing if they take them away. Possibly. So, where is the benefit? We will get to a point that only touring pros can compete. Can afford to and have the skills to compete and win against one another. It will be mini-pro stock. Same folks racing, just a little different outcome every race. Maybe racer A wins this week, racer B next week, but they both always qualify. Racer C, not a chance. Yawn.

Let's agree stock is no longer that and hasn't been for a while. Best thing would be to throw everything out and re-factor every single combination. Yes, those argue "well, you picked your combination, pick a different one." And that's not so easy (or cheap) either. But let's keep the minor advantage I and other's have against the "guys that have always won will always win". Might be the difference even once or twice. I got a taste of winning a few rounds this past weekend and it was kinda fun!

[Jason Oldfield]

I've been watching this thread for a while, and am finally ready to chime in. Let me qualify my comments here by stating that I do not have a horse in this race, so the outcome doesn't affect me directly at all, and that I can feel for you low-budget racers (I'm one myself, just in a different category).

My personal opinion is that this is Stock Eliminator, and that Stock should mean Stock. No buttons, no two-steps, no wheelie bars, etc. What's that? Your stocker is too fast and without wheelie bars you'll scrape the bumper and risk damage and bodily injury? Well, then maybe it's time to slow that bad-boy down.

Now, I realize that two-steps and buttons may even the playing field against the top drivers. My response to that is, GO PRACTICE! And yes, I do race in a category where throttle stops and delay boxes are allowed. My wish however would be that NHRA eliminate all of them from the .90 classes. This would make it so that the best DRIVER and/or tuner would generally win more often. I may not be the best, and if I lose because of it, so be it. I need to go make myself a better driver then.

In the meantime, I use these devices because they are legal, and I'm certainly not going to show up with a knife at a gunfight.

Side Note: Elimination of throttle stops would also have an added affect of reducing the cost to compete because people would no longer have the need to build 1000+ hp motors simply to slow them down to run 9.90 at 170mph. But, this is a topic for another day, in another forum.

Also, I think the elimination of classes as a whole will be a good thing from a spectator point of view. Because you're going to have more cars in a class, that's going to mean more heads-up racing, which EVERYONE likes to watch. Yes, the .90 classes are heads-up, but it's not a no breakout, first one to the finish line class, and as such the spectators RUN from the stands when we come up to compete. All one has to do is look at the popularity of ALL the heads-up classes (the NHRA and IHRA Pros, NMRA, NMCA, ADRL, the Nostalgia drag racing craze, and probably the biggest one of all, Pinks) to see that spectators don't want to watch a bracket race (go to your local track on a Saturday night and take a look in the stands to count all 10 people there). So, elimination of classes will not only create more heads-up races in final eliminations, but in class eliminations as well. The less boring singles to watch a guy "win" class, the better IMHO.

Anyway, by eliminating classes there will be downsides, especially the fact that I think the cost to compete will go up. On the positive side, it's bound to make the racing more interesting for the spectators, which can have nothing but a positive effect on the class overall (maybe not immediately, but over time I would think more money would filter in through more sponsor interest).

All that said, the pessimist in me wonders if NHRA isn't looking at the combination of classes simply to cut down on their expenses. I don't know at how many events Class Eliminations are contested, but less classes means less winners, which means fewer trophies and less payout overall (wouldn't the index adjustment possibly affect this as well, since I'm assuming you'll still have to run at least 5-tenths under to qualify for a class win with a single.) But, maybe that's just me being a glass is half empty type of guy.

Let the flaming of the .90 racer begin!