What would it take for you to attend a Sportsman Race

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I think Tyler’s race has the best chance for success. He just needs some good weather and a good weekend. That track is a much better location to attract racers from a wide area. The Numidia location is good for the D1 racers but has limited interest from other division racers. For me it would be at least a 24 hour tow. My limit is about 14 hours. Atlanta would have been a great location but we all know what happened there.
The last few years have been very difficult for all businesses. The Covid crap and then the huge inflation with fuel prices doubled. All this has an effect on peoples ability to travel long distances. I think this has a negative effect on last years Class Racer Nationals.
There is a couple of independent associations that are healthy. CCRA and the East Coast association are both well attended.
I don’t know what the break even number for Ken’s race was last year. Or what the actual count ended up being. Most divisional races struggle to get above 70 cars in each class. To get 100 car fields in each class you have to be able to pull from several different divisions.
The only way to really make any of these private races work is to have sponsors to assist with the cost of the track rental and improve the pay out structure. That way the promoter does not have as much exposure

Mike I totally disagree with you. This was not a race for those that needed to travel days to get to. D1,D2,D3 have more than enough cars to support a race like this one. I'd bet we have more Stock and Super Stock racers in those 3 Divisions than the rest of the country. As I stated above we the racers let the race down. No excuses that is it in a nut shell. BP

[Randall Klein]

One thing that appeals to me is cool spring or autumn weather, I think Class Racers Revival in St Louis is in August....ummm
Some may want to take a look at the Midwest Class Racers series (below) 2023 schedule posted
Usually $2000/win ea day(some are 4K) 2 days, one tow; they do combine s/SS

Although in the midwest, Earlville, Iowa (2 events w/National Open) and Eau Claire, WI are not too far west, both have great pit space (flat!)

Eau Claire is owned by a racer and been really renovated,super hook, had about 100 cars last year

The Wally is an attraction, I made a special(colored glass) trophy for the first CRR that could be special keepsake...or somebody commission one that has appeal

just some thoughts

Just an option

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Mike I totally disagree with you. This was not a race for those that needed to travel days to get to. D1,D2,D3 have more than enough cars to support a race like this one. I'd bet we have more Stock and Super Stock racers in those 3 Divisions than the rest of the country. As I stated above we the racers let the race down. No excuses that is it in a nut shell. BP

Barry,
I'm sure that you know, Mike is a Division 2 racer. A long time Division 2 racer. The tough thing about Division 2 is that maybe half of the racers are in southern Georgia, southern Alabama, or Florida, and we know how far south Florida goes. That's the problem with Division 2.


But yes, racers let these races down. Regardless of location.


Here's the deal, the more I think about it, the more that I believe it is true.


A race that cannot yield a wally is apparently never going to compete with one that can, for a large portion of the Stock and Super Stock racers. They're going to drive further for a shot at a wally, on the same weekend, or on a different weekend. For the same or less money.



We ran the SportsNational Open one year, against, if I remember correctly, a rescheduled LODRS in Atlanta. While the SportsNational Open outdrew the Atlanta race, which did poorly, there were a ton of racers, Division 3 racers, who literally drove right past the SportsNational Open at Bowling Green to get to Atlanta. The payout at Bowling Green was the same. It was an NHRA event. As a bonus, NitroPlate paid at least $5000 to win the Saturday night Clay Jones combo.


Independent races apparently cannot compete with the wally, for a lot of Stock and Super Stock racers. Even with more money. Even with a better atmosphere. With better treatment. With more chances to win more money. Apparently, if you beat the exact same 6-8 guys to win a race, the race with the wally means something, the other race doesn't. Regardless of pay. I suppose it is a fact that we all have to learn to live with. There is a large percentage of our group that will literally skip a closer, well funded independent race, on a pretty weekend, to use that money and/or time off, to drive further, to an NHRA race where they're treated as riff raff, and paid less. Sad but true.




The best thing that we can do is understand that fact, and figure out if there is a way that anyone can successfully put on an independent race, or races, and make it financially viable. It's a tough economy, which makes sponsors recalcitrant, or hesitant at best. Without sponsors, who will demand serious car counts, it's impossible. Maybe someone will be willing to answer this question: At $250 to enter, how many racers does it take to make a 2-3 day independent race a better than break even deal?

[B Parker]

Alan all good points. With Ken and Tim not doing their race this year maybe it will open more eyes. Gainesville should also be an eye opener. This is the direction our Classes are going. BP

[Dan Fletcher]

My last $.02 on this deal...

The race had MANY sponsors. Thats how they were able to have the fantastic payouts and prizes they did.

I realize Florida, New Hampsire, Washington state, etc are on the edges of the country. I lived in NY on top of Lake Ontario, as in 30 miles as the crow flies from Toronto. I get the travel concern better than anyone.

Let me just put this out there. At Numidia, the same facility that hosted the Class Racer Nationals, there was a divisional event two weeks prior. 96 Stockers and 69 Super stockers in attendance. The week prior at Columbus (not too far down the road) there was the Sport Nats and divisional with a very marginal, dare I say horrible weather forecast. 139 Stockers and 103 Super Stockers. The following week for the Class Racer event with a perfect weather forecast? 55 cars total between the two classes.

The people have clearly spoken...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Alan all good points. With Ken and Tim not doing their race this year maybe it will open more eyes. Gainesville should also be an eye opener. This is the direction our Classes are going. BP

Barry, I agree with your thoughts that both those races not being run, and with the Gators shutting out so many races, that this year might be, and should be, an eye opener for a lot of people. And it could be a harbinger of the direction things are going. That thought saddens me.



I don't know if I'm right or I'm wrong in my conclusions about why people aren't coming to independent races. Those are just observations from talking to people at various locations, trade shows, speed and machine shops, and the races, and reading what people are posting on the forums, as well as just what I've seen over the years.


We're fortunate here to not only have Bowling Green willing to accommodate and support Stock and Super Stock, but also to have a pretty good bunch of racers support the combo series at Bowling Green, as well as having a couple of sponsors support the series over the years. Kevin and I were very fortunate to do pretty well in the series, too.


I would absolutely love to see what we have at Bowling Green spread, and grow.


I do sincerely believe that the race that I described is absolutely possible at Bowling Green, possibly more so there than at any other place. As you said, there are a ton of cars in Divisions 1, 2, and 3. And Bowling Green is probably as good a location as you're going to get, if you're going to draw from all three divisions. But we need someone besides me to believe in that and promote it. We need a Biondo, a Butner, a Connolly, or a Bohannon to promote it. Or maybe some combination of them.


As it stands, looking back over the past 15 years of information and experience, I think that maybe there's enough devotion to Bowling Green, and enough potential there, to pull off a big race. Bowling Green is successfully hosting a bunch of big events. It stands to reason that with the base it already has, and the success it has with other events, that Bowling Green is the facility that can pull it off. My hope would be that if one facility can pull it off, there might be other facilities with the right locations that could use the model.


I get that Ken worked with a track in his area, same with Michael. But right now, I think the key to getting one of these races to really thrive is sort of like the key to real estate. Location, location, location. Honestly, I think that if the next big attempt isn't at least moderately successful, there won't be any more attempts. So I don't think you can go very far south OR north from a relatively central location such as Bowling Green. Because you are correct, it must draw heavily on Divisions 1,2, and 3.


I'd be thrilled to hear other people's thoughts on all of this, I wish more people would speak up. That's how I learn. The perspective of other people. That's why I asked the question about how many cars we have to draw to make a race better than break even. Barring miracles, you're not going to have a Stock and Super Stock race make a track and a promoter wealthy, for damned sure not the first race(s). But you damned sure have to keep the track and promoter from going broke, and you have to have enough cars to keep the sponsors at least interested. I've watched my friends go from booth to booth at PRI, trying to get sponsors on board. That's a tough job.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Dan Fletcher

My last $.02 on this deal...

The race had MANY sponsors. Thats how they were able to have the fantastic payouts and prizes they did.

I realize Florida, New Hampsire, Washington state, etc are on the edges of the country. I lived in NY on top of Lake Ontario, as in 30 miles as the crow flies from Toronto. I get the travel concern better than anyone.

Let me just put this out there. At Numidia, the same facility that hosted the Class Racer Nationals, there was a divisional event two weeks prior. 96 Stockers and 69 Super stockers in attendance. The week prior at Columbus (not too far down the road) there was the Sport Nats and divisional with a very marginal, dare I say horrible weather forecast. 139 Stockers and 103 Super Stockers. The following week for the Class Racer event with a perfect weather forecast? 55 cars total between the two classes.

The people have clearly spoken...

FYI, your $0.02 is very much appreciated, just like your efforts, at least by some people. I'm sitting here pecking away at some projects, while I try to recover from my treatments, hoping that I can figure out a way to get our stuff back to the track. And now hoping we'll have places to race. Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts, and experience.


And some of us get exactly what you're saying. It's really heartbreaking to put in that kind of effort, and offer that kind of payout, and not even get 25% of the car count. That's truly sad. Worse is what it says about the possibilities for racing. You'd think that racers would do better than that to support fellow racers trying to do something for them.

[tommy d]

Don't forget that the bracket races Also offer double entry's and buy backs along with some other perks that won't work for class racers. These help the promoter make it financially.

[SDT1DYI]

I read all the responses and I can only share what we have learned running NWCR in the PNW.
We formed Northwest Class Racers Association with the goal of providing a Stock, Super Stock series for class cars. We held three races in 2022. Paying from the bottom up, first round winners got some cash. Winner 2,000, RU 1,000 and some very nice custom made throphys.
What we found was , there were a group of class cars, ( mostly Stockers) that were very supportive and attended all the races.
Fewer SS cars and no very high end and expensive to maintain Super Stock cars.
Keeping in mind in the West it can be a long tow between tracks.
I did talk with some of the SS guys. Some indicated the cost to run their equipment, saving it for NHRA races etc. I as well felt there was a reluctance to run against 14 -15 second, 5,000 dollar stockers for some.
We did have one race the conflicted with NHRA Divison 6 rescheduled Divisonal at Mission it caused a lower car count at both races.
What we found was paying more guaranteed money , does not guarantee a larger car count.
Class cars that can make 100-150 plus runs in a season will make as many races as time permits. Class cars that can make 30-40 runs a season will not show up.
Different I believe than tracks back East, schudling a Stk/SS event at a West coast track has been very challenging and frustrating. I will not mention tracks, but when tracks kick back part of the entry fee for Bracket events and refuse to do the same for a Stk/SS combo event
it says a lot.
Lastly, the effort to put a class association together, manage it etc is very time consuming. All involved do it "Pro Bono". Many of the racers are very appreciative of the effort but lip service does nothing. if you run a Class car and you want to see Class racing continue and grow outside of NHRA, I urge you to get involved with your local association and help make it happen.

Steve Teeter NWCR Stk/SS 620

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

The first Class Nationals had Class, Top Stock, and to win the eliminator it took eight rounds.

For us working on new car and distance were big factors for missing Ken's race.

The Sports Nationals Open in the end of May is a very good race. I think it has class for Stk/SS, plus a separate eliminator for each. It has The Clay Jones race $5000 to win and a BIG CHECK. The Clay Jones race is a combo race with Stock vs Stock and Super Stock vs Super Stock until the late rounds. In case its a heads up round its just like Indy. The year we got to the finals, that was the only time we had to race a S/S car.

Beach Bend is the best family track in the USA. An amusement park, with a wooden roll a coaster, a great family pool, a camp ground with full hook ups, almost forgot a great 1320'.

Access is good a few easy miles off of I65, close to I69, little south of I64, and a little north of I 40.

Make plans to be there! Come early and stay late and skip the Holliday traffic.

I don't know this but Top Stock might be an option.

I’ve always wondered why no class runoffs at this race?