Class versus brackets winning a round

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by Pedigo Perf

There is something extra exciting about a heads-up race, first to the finish line wins. It's like a little slice of Pro Stock for the sportsman racer.

Agreed but the discouraging part is the lenghts some Stock/SS racers go to in order to avoid a heads up confrontation. I've never seen any bracket racer do that.

[Pedigo Perf]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

Agreed but the discouraging part is the lenghts some Stock/SS racers go to in order to avoid a heads up confrontation. I've never seen any bracket racer do that.

That game ends with time trials. Try to pick who your going to run (or avoid) with 75+ cars all changing the order around at random. We qualify and the ladder starts with first round not second. As for class eliminations, I agree with you to a point and NHRA needs to deal with that. A simple general rule on who runs who with previous ET as a determining factor would help cure that problem.

TP

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

Agreed but the discouraging part is the lenghts some Stock/SS racers go to in order to avoid a heads up confrontation. I've never seen any bracket racer do that.

You're not serious are you?Some bracket racers are masters at avoiding running certain others.Years ago at Westhampton I won heavy two weeks in a row.I had a habit of being the first one in the lanes.Well the next week I got in the right lane and everyone proceeded to line up behind me.Same thing used to happen at Englishtown when I ran Pro ET.
At least S/SS guys do it in tech when classifying.

[Matt Welker]

Originally Posted by THE LEGEND

Matt,
You make some good points. HEADS UP is HEADS UP no way around it, but when you put shoe polish on the window it's still a bracket race.

The key is "WHEN", when a class racers puts show polish on his window. Tell me, "WHEN" does a bracket racer take it off his window? I do like your focus, the approach is correct, because as a class racer, it is a matter of "when", because it doesn't happen all the time and there are specific instances when we run a whole race within a race (like class eliminations after qualifying where we don't use it), then later, when it is necessary, we use show polish for those special bracket runs.

Bracket racers are the same to me as guys who race in a heads up only eliminator (pro or sportsman level), they each have a different, SINGLE focus. In S/SS, there is a duality at work and you need both skills (driving and performance) to win (and I'm taking high car count divisions like 1 and 3, no disrespect to the other divisions or those running cars in less populated classes). Sure, you can make it through a race without a heads up run, but it is unlikely a World Champ won't have one or be effected by a heads up run in some manner during a season. (Please don't response that a bracket racer has performance issues/concerns, they have no necessity to get every last ounce of efficiency out of their car within strict limitations that will be verified, and we both have the same consistency issues.)

For me, INDY is the pinnacle for S/SS, you need performance to get in, performance for class, and you also need driving (those bracket skills) for much of the eliminator. Any racer who can put together both the performance and bracket skills together has my attention and respect. When you bracket race, is there a qualified field where some don't make the eliminator? No, oh, must be that performance issue again for class racers....lets just ignore it, it's just a bracket race, right? And, yes, I have been at a divisional with a full field in stock where racers didn't make the field. Yes, we have been to Indy and not had our cars make the eliminator and we don't complain, we work harder on our performance. Why? Because it's not just a bracket race.

I don't look down on a racer who has a single focus (bracket/heads up only), but I do look up to a S/SS racer who can do both with repeated success. Any serious racer/fan has seen what someone like John Shaul (just one example) has done the past two years. Won national events (I think both on the west coast had heads up runs, one with multiple heads up runs), won a divisional event (don't think he had any heads up runs), and many Class wins along the way.

Sorry, but I think it's harder, and I have more respect, for a driver and their team who not only has to complete in a bracket style race, but also must be ready to go from a bracket round to a heads up run and back again. It is hard enough to do one thing well in racing, but S/SS guys have to do two things well and the ability to do both is the challenge in these classes, that's why it isn't "just a bracket race".

I would still show up if only class winners got to race in the eliminator. If that was the case, then I'd give a **** about what NHRA does with the AHFS. It's not, so I'll continue to play that game as well as the ladder game, sometimes avoiding and sometimes seeking, LOL.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by THE LEGEND

How many of you guys would class race if you had to win class to race on Sunday the way it was back in the good ole days?

I remember those days.

I bet a lot of you don't.

I also bet you would put street tires on those Camaros and Novas and show up at the Local Sonic on Saturday night instead of trying to out run those DP's and CJ's

I do, I have, and would certainly do it again.

[Ed Fernandez]

Another thing.Sometimes we do time shots on Fri,and especially here in Div 1,we sometimes go out Sat right into eliminations.

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

What is a 4.50-5.50 car?

Ed,

Chip is referring to fast 1/8 mile bracket cars. I live in the same area as Chip and starting in the mid 80's the cars got too fast for most of the tracks in central and eastern NC as they were built in the late 50's and early 60's, so everything went to half track racing due to lack of shutdown area. Racers started building their cars for 1/8th only and as other new tracks were built or revamped they were designed for 1/8 mile only. Aside from Rockingham I think only Fayetteville has 1/4 mile capability in NC anymore for regular brackets and there are at least 15 tracks I can name in NC alone-all 1/8 mile. One track in Jacksonville tried 1000 ft for a couple of events 10 years ago and car counts were down and racers complained about having to change the gears in their cars, so they went back to the 660. I think one track is only 500 feet or so.

Quite a few rear engine dragsters here locally running 4.20-4.60 and door cars in the 4.70-5.30 et range in the 1/8th.

[JOE ZOOM]

BIG difference between class racing and brackets.Bracket racers get to leave with the big check or cash in hand and class racers have to jump thur hoops to get payed.

joe mocci

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

You're not serious are you?Some bracket racers are masters at avoiding running certain others.Years ago at Westhampton I won heavy two weeks in a row.I had a habit of being the first one in the lanes.Well the next week I got in the right lane and everyone proceeded to line up behind me.Same thing used to happen at Englishtown when I ran Pro ET.
At least S/SS guys do it in tech when classifying.

That doesn't happen around here Ed. I don't normally run Pro bracket but last race we were 4 wide in the lanes. They have a formula to mix up the cars. Even as the lanes moved up I had no idea who I'd run as they will pull several from one row then 1 from the next. I know a lot of the "heavy's like to go up last though.

As for S/SS, why do guys try qualify on the opposite side of a ladder than a similar class car they know is faster. Seems like trying to avoid a heads up to me and that is well after tech and classifying.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

That doesn't happen around here Ed. I don't normally run Pro bracket but last race we were 4 wide in the lanes. They have a formula to mix up the cars. Even as the lanes moved up I had no idea who I'd run as they will pull several from one row then 1 from the next. I know a lot of the "heavy's like to go up last though.

As for S/SS, why do guys try qualify on the opposite side of a ladder than a similar class car they know is faster. Seems like trying to avoid a heads up to me and that is well after tech and classifying.

The hiders usually came in near the back of the lanes,at least when I ran Pro,which eventually was called Brk 2,supposedly no electronics.That's when I called it quits,around 1991.Then the electric generation came in.
You're right about guys laying it down in qualifying.How can you stop guys from dumping at 1K feet?
It's a shame that all the game playing goes on,but that's the way of the world now.
Joe,you're right about the cash part.