Original hemi dart information - Page 49

davezinn · 09-14-2010, 01:11 AM

Paul, i've read that there was a shortage of the 8 3/4 axles and many of the second run automatic cars got the Dana 60's for that reason.

it's interesting to note the front suspension problems. i've seen where Ronnie Sox had said that the cars they got were "pretty good right out of the box" and i find that very interesting. i don't think thier cars were any different then everyone elses, at least before they got into them. afterwards, well that's pretty obvious.

how many Barracuda's did they get from Hurst? so far with what i've found just one, the second one. the first came to them unfinished right from the Hamtramck plant so i've read and the third? was built by them.

Dave

Paul Ceasrine · 09-14-2010, 10:43 AM

Dave and Daryl,
Check out page 36, post #358.
Great shot of side-by-side cars at the 69' Springnationals in Dallas.
Rear view of Gene Snow's SS/BA car on left, and Vera's Automotive SS/B
out of Corpus Cristi, Texas on the right.
Tires are even with fender-well.
Gene's car had the 8 3/4" rear, Vera's Automotive had the Dana.
Both had Cragars. Both cars appear to have the same rear tire width.
Paul

davezinn · 09-14-2010, 11:13 AM

Paul i'm taking a guess here that you may be questioning whether the cars had A-body rear axles or B-body rear axles. far as i know, which aint far, all the LO23 and BO29 cars used B-body 8 3/4's or Dana 60's. the shortage so i've heard was with B-body 8 3/4 axles which makes sense to me since they needed them for more B-bodies then they would have had a need for Dana 60's in those same cars. i believe the standard rear axle for all B-bodies in '68 was the 8 3/4 with the Dana being used only in the Hemi cars.

if you look at the pics of the Hemi Darts and Barracuda's from before '70 you will see that they all were running positive offset wheels with shallow offsets. this kept the tires and wheels for the most part under the fender. the stock steel wheels included on the cars from Hurst have that special offset too. it looks like after '70 or around that time when pro stock hit that the axles started to get narrowed or maybe even swapped to A-body 8 3/4's and deeper offset wheels were more common.

one of the reasons i started the "life after super stock" thread was to establish a time line for when things started to change and for what reasons with the Hemi A-bodies. i do have an interest in that, that maybe others don't but i was hoping too it may help with finding the history on some of these cars like Daryl's. the information on the Mancini/Gratiot cars that came out in this thread is exactly what i'm talking about too and to me that information is huge. does it make the cars that werent Hurst built any less interesting or desireable? not to me, but i'm also one of those who thinks that a cars history is many times what gives a car it's "value".

Dave

Paul Ceasrine · 09-14-2010, 03:12 PM

Dave,
I've got to research my older pictures on the Test Mule car.
There is a great photo of the under-carriage from the rear, showing
the 8 3/4" unit. It was a standard A-body unit.
I can't recall whether the off-set hangers were in use.

Of course the Test Mule was as stated, a test car. The car was not
a complete BO-29 car.

On tire width. Back in the day, on our 68' SS/I 340 Cuda. We used
S/S springs with standard hangers. 9" width M & H slicks.. We used
Ansen Mags (14" x 7") standard (No off-set).
Had about an 1.5" clearance between the leaf spring and tire.

Paul

davezinn · 09-14-2010, 05:52 PM

Hemi Moose, the car you are talking about in the end of your post i think is owned by Larry Nash and is a yellow Dart that's supposedly never been cut. according to magazine articles i have it did once belong to Lou Mancini in the late 70's and into the 80's and was at one point painted green.

Dave

mopar68 · 09-14-2010, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68hemiss

M68, could you send me copies of the McJury Dart and the Fink Dart - for some reason the photos won't load on the site . Thanks,
Mark J
Dart4261964@yahoo.com

Mark,

Click on these links:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4183/img0001rg.jpg

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4314/urd14.jpg

Pix should show up!

M68

mopar68 · 09-14-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezinn

Paul, i've read that there was a shortage of the 8 3/4 axles and many of the second run automatic cars got the Dana 60's for that reason.

it's interesting to note the front suspension problems. i've seen where Ronnie Sox had said that the cars they got were "pretty good right out of the box" and i find that very interesting. i don't think thier cars were any different then everyone elses, at least before they got into them. afterwards, well that's pretty obvious.

how many Barracuda's did they get from Hurst? so far with what i've found just one, the second one. the first came to them unfinished right from the Hamtramck plant so i've read and the third? was built by them.

Dave

M68

Paul Ceasrine · 09-15-2010, 10:55 AM

Daryl,
An article by Bob Tarozzi (Engineer on the Hemi Program).
quote;
"The program was not without its problems.
A front suspension/handling issue developed, and modified pieces were sent to 'SOME' racers who had already picked up their cars in
early-March."
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was the upper control-arms and a steering linakge unit.

Paul

Paul Ceasrine · 09-16-2010, 08:00 AM

Moose,
Gene's Snow car, clearly one of the 'Best Looking 68' Dart's'.
Another Racer Brown camshaft user too.
Not too many photo's of that car from 1968.

pc

mike koester 66 nova · 09-16-2010, 08:14 PM

The Wilkes family were Hemi racers back in the late 60s and early 70s,
Ray owned a 65 car and later a 68 Cuda. If my memory serves me, I do
believe one of the Wilkes told me once at a points race that they owned
the yellow Mancini Dart driven formally by Bruce Hawk. The Dart was sitting behind their shop having been damaged by a fire. I do not know if they ever raced the car , or just bought it for parts. This was at least ten years ago, do not know what happened to the car after that.

09-14-2010, 01:11 AM	#481
davezinn Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 42 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Paul, i've read that there was a shortage of the 8 3/4 axles and many of the second run automatic cars got the Dana 60's for that reason. it's interesting to note the front suspension problems. i've seen where Ronnie Sox had said that the cars they got were "pretty good right out of the box" and i find that very interesting. i don't think thier cars were any different then everyone elses, at least before they got into them. afterwards, well that's pretty obvious. how many Barracuda's did they get from Hurst? so far with what i've found just one, the second one. the first came to them unfinished right from the Hamtramck plant so i've read and the third? was built by them. Dave

09-14-2010, 10:43 AM	#482
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Dave and Daryl, Check out page 36, post #358. Great shot of side-by-side cars at the 69' Springnationals in Dallas. Rear view of Gene Snow's SS/BA car on left, and Vera's Automotive SS/B out of Corpus Cristi, Texas on the right. Tires are even with fender-well. Gene's car had the 8 3/4" rear, Vera's Automotive had the Dana. Both had Cragars. Both cars appear to have the same rear tire width. Paul

09-14-2010, 11:13 AM	#483
davezinn Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 42 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Paul i'm taking a guess here that you may be questioning whether the cars had A-body rear axles or B-body rear axles. far as i know, which aint far, all the LO23 and BO29 cars used B-body 8 3/4's or Dana 60's. the shortage so i've heard was with B-body 8 3/4 axles which makes sense to me since they needed them for more B-bodies then they would have had a need for Dana 60's in those same cars. i believe the standard rear axle for all B-bodies in '68 was the 8 3/4 with the Dana being used only in the Hemi cars. if you look at the pics of the Hemi Darts and Barracuda's from before '70 you will see that they all were running positive offset wheels with shallow offsets. this kept the tires and wheels for the most part under the fender. the stock steel wheels included on the cars from Hurst have that special offset too. it looks like after '70 or around that time when pro stock hit that the axles started to get narrowed or maybe even swapped to A-body 8 3/4's and deeper offset wheels were more common. one of the reasons i started the "life after super stock" thread was to establish a time line for when things started to change and for what reasons with the Hemi A-bodies. i do have an interest in that, that maybe others don't but i was hoping too it may help with finding the history on some of these cars like Daryl's. the information on the Mancini/Gratiot cars that came out in this thread is exactly what i'm talking about too and to me that information is huge. does it make the cars that werent Hurst built any less interesting or desireable? not to me, but i'm also one of those who thinks that a cars history is many times what gives a car it's "value". Dave

09-14-2010, 03:12 PM	#484
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Dave, I've got to research my older pictures on the Test Mule car. There is a great photo of the under-carriage from the rear, showing the 8 3/4" unit. It was a standard A-body unit. I can't recall whether the off-set hangers were in use. Of course the Test Mule was as stated, a test car. The car was not a complete BO-29 car. On tire width. Back in the day, on our 68' SS/I 340 Cuda. We used S/S springs with standard hangers. 9" width M & H slicks.. We used Ansen Mags (14" x 7") standard (No off-set). Had about an 1.5" clearance between the leaf spring and tire. Paul

09-14-2010, 05:52 PM	#485
davezinn Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 42 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Hemi Moose, the car you are talking about in the end of your post i think is owned by Larry Nash and is a yellow Dart that's supposedly never been cut. according to magazine articles i have it did once belong to Lou Mancini in the late 70's and into the 80's and was at one point painted green. Dave

09-15-2010, 10:55 AM	#488
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Daryl, An article by Bob Tarozzi (Engineer on the Hemi Program). quote; "The program was not without its problems. A front suspension/handling issue developed, and modified pieces were sent to 'SOME' racers who had already picked up their cars in early-March." I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was the upper control-arms and a steering linakge unit. Paul

09-16-2010, 08:00 AM	#489
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Moose, Gene's Snow car, clearly one of the 'Best Looking 68' Dart's'. Another Racer Brown camshaft user too. Not too many photo's of that car from 1968. pc

09-16-2010, 08:14 PM	#490
mike koester 66 nova Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information The Wilkes family were Hemi racers back in the late 60s and early 70s, Ray owned a 65 car and later a 68 Cuda. If my memory serves me, I do believe one of the Wilkes told me once at a points race that they owned the yellow Mancini Dart driven formally by Bruce Hawk. The Dart was sitting behind their shop having been damaged by a fire. I do not know if they ever raced the car , or just bought it for parts. This was at least ten years ago, do not know what happened to the car after that.