Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Guess I don't understand the logic, how can it make any sense to take out 200 lbs. and take a .4 hit on the index. I thought the AA class was created so that the new cars had a class to participate in stock without weighing 5000 lbs.. Now that all the new cars are in their own class does it not make since that the index for AA be in line with the rest of the indexes? Kind of the same thing that happened to the Hemi's in SS. Their index gets busted .25 for qualifying at the top, then they get the additional .3 when they changed all the indexes. The fastest Hemi qualifier at Indy last year was 106 and the winner of the Hemi shootout qualified 120th. Jim Bailey, were you part of the 'lengthy discussion' with NHRA? Inquiring minds want to know .. NHRA & IHRA did a great job of killing Top Stock too ...

Chuck,
The AA/S and AA/SA classes were created for the old cars, such as the ZL-1, the Hemi cars, the 427/425, and a few other combinations, before the new cars came to Stock Eliminator. Several racers running the older cars in A/S and A/SA went to Len Imbrogno and asked for a 7.0 or 7.5 pounds per HP class. At the time, some of the Hemi cars were at 445 HP, as was the ZL-1, the L-88 was at 440. We (Kevin Cradduck and I) were running a 427/425 with the 401 heads at the time, factored at 435, and we had a ZL-1 in pieces in the shop. The 7.5# weight break was agreed upon, and then the index was set at 10.90, the idea being the cars could be run hard, and put some nice numbers on the scoreboards for the fans, without everyone ending up being factored at 450+ HP. We ran AA/SA almost exclusively for a while, as I was one of the first of the people who asked for the class, because we were building the ZL-1 at the time.

Within two years or so, the new cars were in Stock Eliminator, and all the indexes were lowered 0.30 across the board.

Yes, it would certainly be wise and fair to raise the AA/S and AA/SA indexes to somewhere around 10.75, or better still, 10.80.

The current 10.60 index would be fine, if the weight break was 7.0#, which some had suggested to begin with. The problem with a 7.0# weight break is that it would stop about 1/2 of the cars (or even more than 1/2) that are eligible now from running AA/S and AA/SA. Not a good solution.

When NHRA first stated their intention to move the new cars into their own classes, several racers suggested that the older cars get a 7.0# class as well as keeping the 7.5# class, to allow the cars factored at 435-440 and up to run at 7.0# and run off the 10.60 index. They shot that idea down quickly.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Guess I don't understand the logic, how can it make any sense to take out 200 lbs. and take a .4 hit on the index.

That may asking a bit much - the logic, sense and stuff.


The other inconsistencies of index differential between classes that have been pointed out earlier in this thread need to be corrected, too. They were chosen back during a time when power factors were not handed out as they are now. It was like "we've got this bunch of Chevy II hardtops that aren't much slower that this bunch of Chevy II sedans so we will give them a harder index" type of rationale. It would be nice to clean it up to make the index differences for changes in weight factors consistent and let the chips fall where they may (in the AHFS pot!).

[SGE1340]

AAA/SA , 7.0 , 10.60.........AA/SA 7.5 10.80...........A/SA 8.0 11.00 , never happen but fun to dream about! What would be the harm in it? id love to play in triple A!

[Mike Keener]

Two more great posts by Alan and Dwight. Both are right on target and point out the other flaws beside AA/S that have been brought to our attention earlier in the thread by Mike Carr, Billy Nees, and other racers.

I can understand NHRA not wanting to create a 7# class back in the day but perhaps now it should be revisited? Nitro Joe's stats show that in the high HP stock class cars the transmission type is no advantage either way- so why wouldn't the idea of having AAA/S @ 7# with a 10.60 index and AA/S @ 7.5# with a 10.80 index, sticks and autos combined, (in these two classes only) seem reasonable? Interesting enough the number of classes would remain the same while creating a new 7# class in the process.

Considering that the FS cars were placed in their own classes last year with sticks and autos combined- I see no reason it wouldn't be a good idea in AAA/S and AA/S provided the AHFS still factors the HP ratings by transmission type just as they they currently do in the FS classes.

[Alan Roehrich]

Mike, I don't think I would disagree with a 7.0# class and a 7.5# class with sticks and automatics combined. We've got a fresh Jerico in the shop, and besides, Jimmy Bridges has been busting my chops about building the ZL-1 and putting the stick behind it. We might be back out later in the year, if things go okay.

[4406mopar]

What were the breaks when it was AA/SA, BB/SA, CC/SA? Why did they go away?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by 4406mopar

What were the breaks when it was AA/SA, BB/SA, CC/SA? Why did they go away?

I think that CC/SA was what AA/SA was previously, and is now, 7.5#, but I cannot remember for sure.

They went away because the new cars were put in their own classes. NHRA cut the top two classes for traditional cars, probably because almost no one could run a 6.5# class, and they wanted to keep the number of classes down. I know the ZL-1, and the L-88, can make the 7.0# class, not sure what else can. We were interested in the 7.0# class because we have most of the pieces, including an aluminum GM ZL-1 block, to put the ZL-1 together and put it in the car, 7.0# would be tough with the automatic in the car, but we have the Jerico.


When we originally asked for AA, we asked for a 7.0# class, because we had a ZL-1 going together, Johnny and Chad Rhodes were working on an L-88, Joe Fasano and Steve Calabro had the silver L-88 Corvette, Craig Couris had the red L-88 Corvette, and there were others, I think Wikle was building a ZL-1 for someone when I talked to him. At 445HP for the ZL-1, and 440 for the L-88, the cars were real heavy with an 8.0# weight break, and there were people wanting to see more cars going fast in Stock Eliminator. The guys I was talking to were wanting a class where we could let the cars run hard, a 9.90 would only be 1.0 under, you'd have to go 9.70 to get HP.

Len Imbrogno went to NHRA on our behalf, and they came back with the 7.5# AA class as a compromise, and gave us the 10.90 index we asked for. I think by then maybe Bobby DeArmond and a few others were on board for AA, and the 7.5# weight break allowed the 427/425 and some other cars to run, including the 396/375 cars. This may have been even better, because some of the 396/375 guys were feeling that being able to run the top class was being taken away from them unfairly.

Not long after, the new cars came into the class, and with some of them quickly being factored to 450HP or more, they needed even lighter classes, so NHRA made classes for them, I think AA became a 6.5# class, BB was added as a 7.0# class, and what was AA became CC and remained a 7.5# class. The alphabet soup got real murky by then, I'm not real certain on the classes, as we dropped back to A/SA, and put the ZL-1 on the back burner, after we were told by some of the guys with new cars that their cars that were factored the same as ours were making over 150HP more, and their time slips backed it up.

[Dave Ficacci]

Seems like the west coast AA cars don't have an issue qualifying in the top 10 on a consistent basis. The index looks just fine to me.

[Jim Bailey]

David, I assume you're talking about the --one-- AA/SA car on the west coast that has "consistently" qualified in the top ten ? .... Additionally - with this most favorable index, I'll assume you're gonna run AA all this season including showing up at Indy in AA trim ?

[jimi]

I was against slowing the index ,if its what is best for the class then I vote to change it to 10.80 . I also feel hat we should have 7.0# class that way the 6.5# cars can race as well. leave the 10.60 index for the 7.0# cars