DP #24 Engine failure....

[Adger Smith]

OK, Just checking.. He has had enough problems without making more in the tech area.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by hemidup

Drooze has a totally legal engine using the newly accepted NHRA Manley 6.240" rod's, OEM Diamond pistons with .066" head gaskets. Quensh is still far from perfect.

If the spec calls for a Zero deck and the piston is above the deck, you cannot compensate with a thicker gasket.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

OK, Just checking.. He has had enough problems without making more in the tech area.

Bless Drooze and crew. I want them to succeed, trust me. Me, being 54, have made my living for almost the past 10% of my life building Gen III Hemi's.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

If the spec calls for a Zero deck and the piston is above the deck, you cannot compensate with a thicker gasket.

Intersting Bruce Bachelder would disagree....and well....in as much as NHRA Tech on Stockers in concerned.....well.

As long as I am + my Gasket in this case .026 (for a 5.7) So I needed to make up .034 for the NHRA Accepted rods and the ONLY 5.7 Accepted pistons. Which these are the multilayer embossed, so a couple sets, pull the rivets, and get it just right.

So I called Bruce, and it was a no brainer, you cant will there to be more metal on the block. and blocks need decked , and so on, as LONG as my heights = what is in the blueprint guide Im kosher.

We also reviewed everything else I was and wanted to do.

Now maybe in the pecking order at the NHRA someone is higher up than him in Stock and Superstock Im not aware of....But I was told by the NHRA a ways back and many others HE is the single guy I need to check with forget div techs etc. Ask 10 questions youll get 10 different answers from Div and even Nat.

Bruce actually KNOWS the DP and the issues surrounding it he is the one who approved and rejected many of the items in use including the heads. And the rear suspension like in the example of Caughlins car when Holt tried something we wanted to do but were told we couldnt. Well he couldnt either. He is one of the ones who had the deck heights changed because of piston spec issues on the 6.1 (everyone complains at advertised CR, do a calc sometime on the 6.1 per the guide...if YOU can get 12.7:1 well.....Id like to see the math)

Zeee Rules I am far from making up or throwing out, every single part that has gone into this is checked and verified as to legality and any items I do of significance like valve job and cutting ID on valve seats is checked before I do it.

Quite to the contrary, I am making 1000% sure Im spot on and if there is an issue it will not be difficult for me to say Hey BB said it was legal we discussed it at length and I have NO doubts he will recal as weve had some very in depth conversations on all these issues.

NOTHING is better than being torn down for me, nothing, if you need it well you pulled a smoker and being able to just sit and smile through it is an awesome feeling with no "nerves" or wow I wonder, or wow I hope, Knowing and having that feeling is well its awesome....to me but Im strange that way.

I do appreciate your concern, and its for a good reason so I dont get bounced, I understand it is not/was not an attack in any way and I do appreciate the concer, right now, at this moment legality is the last of my concern.....one more gremlin to kill...but its daylight now so maybe it turned into something fuzzy and cuddly

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by drooze

Intersting Bruce Bachelder would disagree....and well....in as much as NHRA Tech on Stockers in concerned.....well.

As long as I am + my Gasket in this case .026 (for a 5.7) So I needed to make up .034 for the NHRA Accepted rods and the ONLY 5.7 Accepted pistons. Which these are the multilayer embossed, so a couple sets, pull the rivets, and get it just right.

So I called Bruce, and it was a no brainer, you cant will there to be more metal on the block. and blocks need decked , and so on, as LONG as my heights = what is in the blueprint guide Im kosher.

We also reviewed everything else I was and wanted to do.

Now maybe in the pecking order at the NHRA someone is higher up than him in Stock and Superstock Im not aware of....But I was told by the NHRA a ways back and many others HE is the single guy I need to check with forget div techs etc. Ask 10 questions youll get 10 different answers from Div and even Nat.

Bruce actually KNOWS the DP and the issues surrounding it he is the one who approved and rejected many of the items in use including the heads. And the rear suspension like in the example of Caughlins car when Holt tried something we wanted to do but were told we couldnt. Well he couldnt either. He is one of the ones who had the deck heights changed because of piston spec issues on the 6.1 (everyone complains at advertised CR, do a calc sometime on the 6.1 per the guide...if YOU can get 12.7:1 well.....Id like to see the math)

Zeee Rules I am far from making up or throwing out, every single part that has gone into this is checked and verified as to legality and any items I do of significance like valve job and cutting ID on valve seats is checked before I do it.

Quite to the contrary, I am making 1000% sure Im spot on and if there is an issue it will not be difficult for me to say Hey BB said it was legal we discussed it at length and I have NO doubts he will recal as weve had some very in depth conversations on all these issues.

NOTHING is better than being torn down for me, nothing, if you need it well you pulled a smoker and being able to just sit and smile through it is an awesome feeling with no "nerves" or wow I wonder, or wow I hope, Knowing and having that feeling is well its awesome....to me but Im strange that way.

I do appreciate your concern, and its for a good reason so I dont get bounced, I understand it is not/was not an attack in any way and I do appreciate the concer, right now, at this moment legality is the last of my concern.....one more gremlin to kill...but its daylight now so maybe it turned into something fuzzy and cuddly

I know of many engines in both Division 6 and 7 that have been bounced during tech for having a piston above the deck when it was supposed to be below or at Zero and the owner tried to compensate by the use of a thicker gasket.

I was told the deck dimension and the gasket dimension are separate. Think about it; if the spec calls for a zero deck and your pistons are below the deck, are you going to use a thinner gasket than the spec to compensate for the piston deck?

[art leong]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Drooze,
Adger is correct. I have read many of your posts and although you may have some experience with motorcycle and car engine building, a legal engine for Stock or Super Stock takes a bit more of not only knowledge, but also experience.

Been there Done that.
My Spirit had a positive deck height spec of plus .004. It wasa just a number chrysler wrote down (they never built a motor to those specs) .
I had 139,000 miles on the car when I set the record at Maple Grove. They checked the deck and it was -.030 down the bore (34 thousanths short).
Curt Lasure. Threw me out. for having to little compression. After a long conversation. in which I explained it would be hard to build a motor to there specs because the head gaskets varied a couple of thousanths Usually being about .004 thicker than the specs.
So it would be almost impossible to build a positive deck motor and have it check legal.
He told me to set up the motor with a positive deck then use 2 head gaskets. Which I did and never had another problem with tech. I believe the new Hemis use a MLS gasket and you can stack them as thick as you want.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

I know of many engines in both Division 6 and 7 that have been bounced during tech for having a piston above the deck when it was supposed to be below or at Zero and the owner tried to compensate by the use of a thicker gasket.

I was told the deck dimension and the gasket dimension are separate. Think about it; if the spec calls for a zero deck and your pistons are below the deck, are you going to use a thinner gasket than the spec to compensate for the piston deck?

That rule has been changed. I asked what the advantage was to have a piston below the deck when it's supposed to be above the deck. And the best they could come up with was "that i would gain piston to valve clearance" I told him he was right. But that I would accomplish the same thing with a thicker head gasket. He looked at me and I know he wanted to say "overload Will Robinson can not compute"
Later that year the rule was changed.

[Adger Smith]

Art,
Believe me. there is an advantage to having the piston down in the hole and use a thinner gasket to get the NHRA piston to head spec. I don't feel like typing the complete explanation. I'm tired.. Spent all day picking up my cars.

[hemidup]

The last thing ordered for our DP engine build were custom Cometic head gasket's. Yah....wierd.

[Phillip marvetz]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

If the spec calls for a Zero deck and the piston is above the deck, you cannot compensate with a thicker gasket.

I did just that when I set the V record last summer. All was fine in the land of div 6.