2015 AA/S and AA/SA Could Be Very Exciting

[Dave Ficacci]

Mike,

Happy to hear you are bringing back the old iron. 2015 should be fun again in AA and A like it used to be.

In my opinion the index is just fine where it is and has been for the last 7 years. The 10.60 index allows you to run your car all out for a majority of the season and not worry about HP which is the main reason the class was created with this index in the first place.

If you don't think you can qualify in AA at Indy, you have the option to run A. If you built an AA only car, it is what it is.

There have been plenty of cars running in A capable of qualifying in AA (CC) in years past. To name a one, Ken Keirs Nova has been on what appear to be 9.8x runs in the heat of the day during class eliminations in A. Tuned up in the morning sessions Ken would have no problem getting in the field in AA. I'm sure if David Barton wanted the Coronet to qualify in AA he could as well.

Its funny you mention the "tanks" running in A. Weight was another reason why AA was created several years ago. Many drivers of these "tanks" got into NHRAs ear about how unsafe these car are becoming carrying so much weight and parts breakage was also an issue. Well look back till about 2008/09 when all these "tanks" put the weight back in to run A to avoid the new cars and have been in A ever since...I guess it wasn't about weight and safety after all. In my opinion are too many personal agendas out there and this thread is another example.

To comment on your stick/auto comparison in Top Stock, I don't believe you had two equally built cars with the same combo, one auto, one stick competing in Top Stock did you? I lost interested when crate motors were allowed so maybe you did. Point being you need to look no further than SS/AH in the last 5 years to know the stick is faster. There is a reason everyone switched to a manual, and you know its not because its easier.

[Mike Keener]

Hey Dave,

Good to hear from you. And yes it will be great to race the old iron again.

The majority of the AA cars are removing somewhere between 200 to 225 pounds from their A weight so how much quicker do you think a AA car is over an A car in your opinion?

Also comparison of a stick vs auto is not the same when using the AH cars as an example because they are clutchless transmissions which is a completely different issue. Comparing a clutch assisted stick to an auto is what I was referring to.

Hope to see you some next season!

MK

[Paul Precht]

Only a small percentage of the traditional A/SA cars in the country can run a second under in the best of air, they don't need the 10.60 index in AA to give them room. For many, AA will allow them to run quicker with less strain on the drive train, 10.80 would be the best index IMO.

[Chuck Norton]

Mike,

Certainly, both of us recall the marathon late-night coffee shop sessions during which the original rules for Top Stock were debated and re-hashed. I recall questioning your position that stick and automatic cars in the upper classes were essentially oblivious to the choice of transmissions and then, months later, watching your position be validated once all the cars were on the same track.

In the end, Top Stock, during the initial event or two that it was contested, before the crate motors were accepted, has remained one of the most striking examples of Stock Eliminator drag racing parity that has been achieved thus far and it was done with paper and pencil, using the framework of existing NHRA horsepower ratings across a variety of platforms and a cross section of cars and drivers, and with every car laying down the absolutely best numbers that it could muster on every pass. You will recall that the top two qualifiers were a stick and an automatic. The top ten qualifiers included six stick cars and four automatics. The final round featured a stick and an automatic, the #4 and #5 qualifiers.

Among the lessons learned at Norwalk in 2000 that directly apply to AA/S and AA/SA:
1. Sticks and automatics CAN run together in the higher HP classes without putting either at a debilitating disadvantage and if the indexes are the same, why have two classes? In the end, track prep and maintenance are the deciding factors. In the case of Top Stock, when the track was good, the stick cars ruled. When the bite went away, automatic cars prevailed. Nothing will be any different in 2015. So, take your pick.
2. In the case of AA/S and AA/SA, with the new cars removed from the equation, leaving the original combinations that are well-known entities, there is no particular performance advantage to the choice of either transmission. Why not give the fans something to get excited about? How could anyone not enjoy seeing pairings such as Hemis versus Thunderbolts, heads-up, flat-out.
3. Indexes mean everything when it comes to qualifying and next to nothing when it comes to racing. The AA class is no different than any other class in Stock Eliminator in this regard. If you plan to run Indy in a AA class with the index at 10.60 you will be at a huge disadvantage against any other class index in the field. And, if you can’t qualify, you don’t race.

With regard to the AA entries, if the committee doesn’t elect to merge the transmissions into a single class, let’s hope that they get it right by assigning fair indexes to them so that they may enjoy the same opportunity to qualify at Indy as any other class. Everyone has a vested interest in parity and a level playing field.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, Mike!

[Dave Casey]

Chuck,

Your post reminds me how we miss your contribution to forums like this, not because I share your point of view here, but because you have a way with words.

It sure was a fun deal at the first go around in 2000, I did not have my A car then, I was racing my G/S car and I traveled with John Shaul and enjoyed the whole deal. There certainly was some beer drank and stories told down in that grassy corner in Norwalk.

My car won't run AA, it is a natural B car, that being said, times have changed and I believe the 10.60 index should be raised to 10.75 or 10.80 for both trans.. Speaking of trans, I think there are no advantages stick to auto in the AA,A,B classes. The Hemi cars Dave mentioned are still extremely close, and they have much better trans than stock in the stick cars

[Dave Ficacci]

Mike,

In my car its 200lbs exactly from A to B and I see about .18 difference so I would suspect the same or similar from AA to A

My other comment on this would be to be careful what you wish for. I understand that qualifying at Indy would be difficult but not impossible with a 10.60 index, however you need to think about every other race on the schedule not just Indy with its 4000+ DA.. From all the years I've know about you and your team it's that you are go fast guys. If you get your wish and AA has a 10.80 index, what are you going to do when you are racing and March and October when its -500DA and you are now piling in weight to slow the car down from going 1.20 under or even 1 under to avoid a trigger. What fun is that?? Remember the class average only has to be .85 under to receive horsepower so now you have to consider running your AA car around the 9.95 mark instead of 9.75. Does this still sound fun? AA was created with a 10.60 index so you don't have to play these horsepower games. An old iron car should be able to run AA on a 10.60 all year all out and be safe from HP and a 1.20 under hit for at least a few more years. Cars are only going to get faster, not slower.

In my opinion, leave AA alone. If your sole worry here is qualifying at Indy, then run A. That's where we will be. Hope to see you there as well.

[Dave Ficacci]

Yo Ken - I know you are reading this. You have run AA/CC with your old iron more than anyone since its inception. What's your opinion?

[Ken Miele]

Hey Dave, of course I'm reading this thread. You know me, I try to keep my opinions on Class Racer to a minimum, but since you asked here goes.

I like the 10.60 index for all of the reasons you posted. Its the main reason I run it, no worries about hp and I can run pretty much all out all the time, plus I like going as fast as I can. When it comes to Indy, I just put it in A. Any car that runs 9.80's in AA will have no problem qualifying in A at Indy.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

[Larry Hill]

This looks like it could be fun be fun at Indy watching all you fast guys!

[Bruce Noland]

9.80's where? An AA car runing in the 9.80's at D1 races would be a 10.0's car at Indy and it would be at best a 10.10 car in A at Indy. I doubt that will get an A car in at Indy next year.