Pontiac 455 hp reduction - Page 3

Bobby DiDomenico · 01-12-2022, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Briglio

Car isn't deleted. Combo with aluminum head gets deleted because gm never made it. Nhra made the mistake of putting it into their books.

Meant combination. I understand they actually built the body.

oldskool · 01-13-2022, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss3011

Back in the early 80's we ran a 73 GTO in Stock with an NHRA factored Hp at 350 non ram air and 355 with ram air . There was some confusion on the factory HP rating which originally came out at 310 , but was later reduced to 290 . Pretty hard combo to run because the parts are so rare .

Yeah, I've never understood that. I've read that the 310hp rating engine was never actually released to the public. Pontiac decided to put a smaller cam in it, so that it would better meet the emission requirements, at the time. This cam change reduced the advertised hp to 290.

Sorta like SS&DI using an SD455 powered GTO as their cover car one month. Called it "Car of the Year". From everything I've read, the SD455 engine was released to the public ONLY in Firebirds.

https://www.hotcars.com/1974-pontiac...-sd-455-facts/

But, for some reason, NHRA allows the '73 SD455 engine to be used in Lemans, Grand Am, & Grand Prix models. John Clegg actually put one in a GP. And Russ mentioned running one in a GTO. But, as he said, the required factory parts are just too rare & expensive to race, for most Pontiac racers. They're highly sought after by collectors.

I suppose that for the non-Pontiac guys here I should mention a few of the most famous SD455 cars. The 1st is the Herslow & Morlock '73 T/A. It set records in both Stock & SS. Then Phil Szupka raced it for a while. John Clegg bought a new '73 SD455 Formula, & won the D/S class @ Indy with it that year. Later ran pretty strong in SS with it. J.B. Clegg now runs mid 9's with it, which makes it the quickest reg SS Pontiac.

Bob Michael built a '73 for SS. Later sold it to Don Kennedy. Craig Hendrickson of H-O Racing Specialties bought a new '74 T/A. Built a SS/KA out of it & set the record in '77. A few years ago, J.B. Clegg ran some 9.60's in it. So, at that time it was the quickest reg SS class Pontiac, ever. Could name others. But that's just a little Pontiac trivia for off season entertainment.

Billy Nees · 01-13-2022, 08:24 AM

Umm, I don't think that he posts on here but Phil Szupka owned an original 73 GP/ 455SD!

oldskool · 01-13-2022, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Umm, I don't think that he posts on here but Phil Szupka owned an original 73 GP/ 455SD!

Yeah, we've all read about stuff that came off the assembly line that wasn't suppose to. And a variety of VIP's could usually special order something that was not available to the general public.

Here's a quote from an '07 Motor Trend article. Don't know how much research the writer did. And I didn't see every '73 GP that came off the line.

"... no SD-455-powered Grand Prixs were ever factory produced..."

https://www.motortrend.com/news/hppp...ac-grand-prix/

Pic #4 is of an H-O Racing Specialties newsletter with John Clegg's '73 GP on the cover. It says that he ran it @ Indy with SD455 power, although it don't say that it was an original SD455 equipped car. But it does show that NHRA allowed the SD455 to be used in a '73 GP, from the early years. So, maybe that's the info that Pontiac gave NHRA, at the time.

Mick Leiferman ran a '73 GTO. I've read that it had SD455 power. If that's true, don't know if it came with the SD455 or he swapped it in. For the non-Pontiac guys who don't know Mick Leiferman, he ran a '71 GTO that was a 5-year nat record holder & who was Stock RU @ Indy 3 years straight.

Here are pics of his '71 & pics of his '73, with 2 different paint jobs.

Stan Weiss · 01-13-2022, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Umm, I don't think that he posts on here but Phil Szupka owned an original 73 GP/ 455SD!

Billy,
I only talked to Phil a couple of times, but someone I knew worked with Phil. If my memory is still working correctly didn't Pontiac/GM back then have a law suite against Phil for the name on his race car?

Stan

Bruce Fulper · 01-13-2022, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Umm, I don't think that he posts on here but Phil Szupka owned an original 73 GP/ 455SD!

Had to be dealer installed

Jeff Stout · 01-13-2022, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Billy,
I only talked to Phil a couple of times, but someone I knew worked with Phil. If my memory is still working correctly didn't Pontiac/GM back then have a law suite against Phil for the name on his race car?

Stan

Here was a lawsuit against Pontiac. This 32 Ford trademarked the phrase. The Judge. Its written on trunk lid. Rumors it cost $1m back then

oldskool · 01-13-2022, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Stout

Here was a lawsuit against Pontiac. This 32 Ford trademarked the phrase. The Judge. Its written on trunk lid. Rumors it cost $1m back then

Never heard anything about that. Might be bogus info. Don't know.

I've always assumed the name was used because of the famous phrase from the TV show, " LAUGH-iN ", which was "Here Come the Judge", & several hit recordings with that name.

Jeff Stout · 01-13-2022, 06:43 PM

Not bogus at all. This is my home track at US 30 Dragstrip in Indiana. I will find the complete article and post it here.

Jeff Stout · 01-13-2022, 06:57 PM

Sorry this is the shortest version I found of case. It was a big deal back in the day around Chicagoland area.

U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois - 342 F. Supp. 203 (N.D. Ill. 1972)
May 3, 1972
342 F. Supp. 203 (1972)
Wilbur A. HEINEMANN, Jr., Plaintiff,
v.
GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION, Defendant.
No. 70 C 3023.
United States District Court, N. D. Illinois, E. D.

February 28, 1972.
On Motion for Amendment of Judgment May 3, 1972.
George Bullwinkel, Chicago, Ill., for plaintiff.

E. Manning Giles, Chicago, Ill., for defendant.

MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER
BAUER, District Judge.

This cause comes on plaintiff's and defendant's cross-motions for summary judgment pursuant to Rule 56 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Plaintiff, Wilbur A. Heinemann, Jr. (hereinafter referred to as "Heinemann"), is a resident of Indiana. Defendant, General Motors Corporation (hereinafter referred to as "GM"), is a Delaware corporation licensed to do business *204 in the State of Illinois. The amount in controversy exceeds $10,000, exclusive of interests and costs, and this Court is alleged to have jurisdiction to hear this case under diversity of citizenship and various federal statutes dealing with trade marks and unfair competition. The material facts in this case are not in dispute and, accordingly, the matter is appropriate for disposition by summary judgment.

Ever since he was quite young the Plaintiff has been interested in automobiles. Upon obtaining his first car at the age of 18, Heinemann began "modifying" it as soon as he could. Plaintiff's interest led him to purchase a succession of automobiles, many of which he "modified" or changed radically. In 1961, Heinemann extensively modified a 1951 Ford convertible which he named "SAINTNIC'S SLAY" and exhibited in several automobile shows. In 1964, the Plaintiff modified a 1958 Chevrolet which he named "BRAND X" and entered in drag races. Later in 1964, Plaintiff acquired an interest in a 1932 Model A Ford, the automobile involved in the instant suit. Upon acquisition of this interest, Heinemann began extensive modification of this automobile in his spare time.

In February of 1968, Plaintiff, with his brother and a friend, narrowed down the number of possible names for this heretofore unnamed automobile to four "The Machine", "The Judge", "The Boss" and "Shotgun". After a discussion, the name "The Judge", was selected. The origin of this name and Heinemann's reason for selecting it are clearly shown by this colloquy during the Plaintiff's deposition:

Q [Mr. Ballard] When did the possibility of naming it The Judge first occur to you, if you recall?

A [Heinemann] When the television show Laugh-In came on the air and became the great topic of conversation. It became so popular.[1]
On June 15, 1968, Plaintiff had the words "The Judge" painted on the side of his automobile by an advertising company.

On July 2, 1968, Plaintiff displayed his automobile in the showroom of a Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Chevrolet dealer; Plaintiff received no money for displaying the automobile but did receive free radio advertising and free entry to the July 4, 1968, week-end racing at Union Grove, Wisconsin. In the next two or three months, Plaintiff exhibited or raced his car at several events in the Milwaukee area. These included the "Summerfest" event in July, the "Youth on Wheels" exhibit in August, and the Great Lakes Dragway event in September. Heinemann was not paid for participating in any of these events although he did receive a mileage allowance of $27.50 in October for having brought his car to the "Youth on Wheels" exhibit.

During the spring of 1968, officials of GM's Pontiac Motor Division (hereinafter referred to as "Pontiac") decided to produce a new, high performance model of its Tempest GTO line. John Z. DeLorean, Vice President of GM and General Manager of Pontiac from July, 1965, to February, 1969, stated on affidavit that he had decided to name this new model "The Judge" on July 19, 1968, subject to clearance from Defendant's General Counsel's office that the name was available for Pontiac's use. Mr. DeLorean stated:

That the Rowan and Martin TV Show "Laugh In" is one of his favorite TV programs, which he has watched at every opportunity and that from the time he first heard the expression "Here Comes de Judge" on the TV Show "Laugh-In", in the fall of 1967, he thought that the name *205 "THE JUDGE" would be a good name for an automobile.

That he selected the name "THE JUDGE" because of the popularity of the expression "Here Comes de Judge" on the Rowan and Martin TV Show "Laugh In".

That he never heard of plaintiff, Wilbur A. Heinemann, or his rebuilt 1932 Ford called THE JUDGE until September 29, 1971, when Mr. Mosher of General Motors Legal Staff advised him of the [instant] suit.
On July 30, 1968, an officer of Pontiac asked George R. Mosher, a member of GM's General Counsel, to advise Pontiac on the availability of the words "Judge" and "TJ" for use with automobiles. After a thorough search disclosed no prior use of the words "Judge" or "TJ" for automobiles, GM's General Counsel sent a letter of opinion dated August 6, 1968, to Pontiac indicating that such names were available.

The first public showing of Pontiac's "The Judge" was on September 26, 1968; that same day Heinemann learned of Pontiac's new automobile when he went to a local Pontiac dealer to see the new 1969 line of automobiles. Prior to that date, Heinemann had no knowledge whatsoever that GM was going to produce an automobile with the same name as his own. Shortly after learning of Pontiac's new automobile, Plaintiff went to be a law firm and, on October 1, 1968, made application for registration of the trade mark "The Judge" with the State of Wisconsin. On October 3, 1968, the following trade mark was registered with the State of Wisconsin in Heinemann's name:

01-13-2022, 08:24 AM	#23
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,229 Likes: 3,114 Liked 6,809 Times in 1,526 Posts	Re: Pontiac 455 hp reduction Umm, I don't think that he posts on here but Phil Szupka owned an original 73 GP/ 455SD! __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS World's greatest Under-Achiever!

01-13-2022, 06:43 PM	#29
Jeff Stout VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: phoenix Posts: 1,417 Likes: 53 Liked 659 Times in 258 Posts	Re: Pontiac 455 hp reduction Not bogus at all. This is my home track at US 30 Dragstrip in Indiana. I will find the complete article and post it here.

01-13-2022, 06:57 PM	#30
Jeff Stout VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: phoenix Posts: 1,417 Likes: 53 Liked 659 Times in 258 Posts	Re: Pontiac 455 hp reduction Sorry this is the shortest version I found of case. It was a big deal back in the day around Chicagoland area. U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois - 342 F. Supp. 203 (N.D. Ill. 1972) May 3, 1972 342 F. Supp. 203 (1972) Wilbur A. HEINEMANN, Jr., Plaintiff, v. GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION, Defendant. No. 70 C 3023. United States District Court, N. D. Illinois, E. D. February 28, 1972. On Motion for Amendment of Judgment May 3, 1972. George Bullwinkel, Chicago, Ill., for plaintiff. E. Manning Giles, Chicago, Ill., for defendant. MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER BAUER, District Judge. This cause comes on plaintiff's and defendant's cross-motions for summary judgment pursuant to Rule 56 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiff, Wilbur A. Heinemann, Jr. (hereinafter referred to as "Heinemann"), is a resident of Indiana. Defendant, General Motors Corporation (hereinafter referred to as "GM"), is a Delaware corporation licensed to do business 204 in the State of Illinois. The amount in controversy exceeds $10,000, exclusive of interests and costs, and this Court is alleged to have jurisdiction to hear this case under diversity of citizenship and various federal statutes dealing with trade marks and unfair competition. The material facts in this case are not in dispute and, accordingly, the matter is appropriate for disposition by summary judgment. Ever since he was quite young the Plaintiff has been interested in automobiles. Upon obtaining his first car at the age of 18, Heinemann began "modifying" it as soon as he could. Plaintiff's interest led him to purchase a succession of automobiles, many of which he "modified" or changed radically. In 1961, Heinemann extensively modified a 1951 Ford convertible which he named "SAINTNIC'S SLAY" and exhibited in several automobile shows. In 1964, the Plaintiff modified a 1958 Chevrolet which he named "BRAND X" and entered in drag races. Later in 1964, Plaintiff acquired an interest in a 1932 Model A Ford, the automobile involved in the instant suit. Upon acquisition of this interest, Heinemann began extensive modification of this automobile in his spare time. In February of 1968, Plaintiff, with his brother and a friend, narrowed down the number of possible names for this heretofore unnamed automobile to four "The Machine", "The Judge", "The Boss" and "Shotgun". After a discussion, the name "The Judge", was selected. The origin of this name and Heinemann's reason for selecting it are clearly shown by this colloquy during the Plaintiff's deposition: Q [Mr. Ballard] When did the possibility of naming it The Judge first occur to you, if you recall? A [Heinemann] When the television show Laugh-In came on the air and became the great topic of conversation. It became so popular.[1] On June 15, 1968, Plaintiff had the words "The Judge" painted on the side of his automobile by an advertising company. On July 2, 1968, Plaintiff displayed his automobile in the showroom of a Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Chevrolet dealer; Plaintiff received no money for displaying the automobile but did receive free radio advertising and free entry to the July 4, 1968, week-end racing at Union Grove, Wisconsin. In the next two or three months, Plaintiff exhibited or raced his car at several events in the Milwaukee area. These included the "Summerfest" event in July, the "Youth on Wheels" exhibit in August, and the Great Lakes Dragway event in September. Heinemann was not paid for participating in any of these events although he did receive a mileage allowance of $27.50 in October for having brought his car to the "Youth on Wheels" exhibit. During the spring of 1968, officials of GM's Pontiac Motor Division (hereinafter referred to as "Pontiac") decided to produce a new, high performance model of its Tempest GTO line. John Z. DeLorean, Vice President of GM and General Manager of Pontiac from July, 1965, to February, 1969, stated on affidavit that he had decided to name this new model "The Judge" on July 19, 1968, subject to clearance from Defendant's General Counsel's office that the name was available for Pontiac's use. Mr. DeLorean stated: That the Rowan and Martin TV Show "Laugh In" is one of his favorite TV programs, which he has watched at every opportunity and that from the time he first heard the expression "Here Comes de Judge" on the TV Show "Laugh-In", in the fall of 1967, he thought that the name 205 "THE JUDGE" would be a good name for an automobile. That he selected the name "THE JUDGE" because of the popularity of the expression "Here Comes de Judge" on the Rowan and Martin TV Show "Laugh In". That he never heard of plaintiff, Wilbur A. Heinemann, or his rebuilt 1932 Ford called THE JUDGE until September 29, 1971, when Mr. Mosher of General Motors Legal Staff advised him of the [instant] suit. On July 30, 1968, an officer of Pontiac asked George R. Mosher, a member of GM's General Counsel, to advise Pontiac on the availability of the words "Judge" and "TJ" for use with automobiles. After a thorough search disclosed no prior use of the words "Judge" or "TJ" for automobiles, GM's General Counsel sent a letter of opinion dated August 6, 1968, to Pontiac indicating that such names were available. The first public showing of Pontiac's "The Judge" was on September 26, 1968; that same day Heinemann learned of Pontiac's new automobile when he went to a local Pontiac dealer to see the new 1969 line of automobiles. Prior to that date, Heinemann had no knowledge whatsoever that GM was going to produce an automobile with the same name as his own. Shortly after learning of Pontiac's new automobile, Plaintiff went to be a law firm and, on October 1, 1968, made application for registration of the trade mark "The Judge" with the State of Wisconsin. On October 3, 1968, the following trade mark was registered with the State of Wisconsin in Heinemann's name: