Where you qualify is very important

Mike Schwartz · 07-23-2014, 04:03 AM

There were 20 qualifiers in SS at Denver. The ladder NHRA uses in this situation is here: http://nhraracer.com/ladders/Ladders...Submit1=Submit.

We see that:

Qualifiers 1,6,11,16 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Bye,Win,Win

Qualifiers 2,4,7,9,12,14,17,19 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Win,Bye,Win

Qualifiers 3,5,8,10,13,15,18,20 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Win,Win,Win

Do you recognize which are the "qualifying positions of death"? Which qualifying group would you want to be in to have the best chance of winning the eliminator? Is it fair that under this system just as many bottom half qualifiers have a chance at a bye as top half qualifiers?

In a 20 car field, 12 drivers can take the eliminator with four wins, and eight would need five. There is a way to modify the current ladder that would ensure that the eight bottom qualifiers are the ones that need to win five times.

BobOrme · 07-23-2014, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

There were 20 qualifiers in SS at Denver. The ladder NHRA uses in this situation is here: http://nhraracer.com/ladders/Ladders...Submit1=Submit.

We see that:

Qualifiers 1,6,11,16 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Bye,Win,Win

Qualifiers 2,4,7,9,12,14,17,19 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Win,Bye,Win

Qualifiers 3,5,8,10,13,15,18,20 have the following sequence to win the eliminator:

Win,Win,Win,Win,Win

Do you recognize which are the "qualifying positions of death"? Which qualifying group would you want to be in to have the best chance of winning the eliminator? Is it fair that under this system just as many bottom half qualifiers have a chance at a bye as top half qualifiers?

In a 20 car field, 12 drivers can take the eliminator with four wins, and eight would need five. There is a way to modify the current ladder that would ensure that the eight bottom qualifiers are the ones that need to win five times.

What is that way? How can you do that? Please be specific. I know of no way to do that without seeding drivers instead of relying on actual qualifying numbers. And if seeding drivers is a solution to what some perceive as a problem, why run qualifying at all?

Mike Taylor 3601 · 07-23-2014, 08:24 AM

My theory is if it's your day it's your day
Mike Taylor 3601

5919 SSKA · 07-23-2014, 09:57 AM

You could say that about ANY Stock or Super Stock race for the most part....there is always an easier path...........and a reason so many of the consistent Winners work the ladder.

Sean Marconette · 07-23-2014, 02:00 PM

So because someone qualifies at the top of the pack they should get a free round? Not all combinations set the world on fire. The last time I checked, until the pairings go from an odd number of cars to an even number there has to be a bye run. I guess I do not get this thought process, unless a person is always at the top of the pack and thinks its unfair to have to make more elimination runs compared to a lower qualified car. Play the ladder if you can. It must not work too bad for the touring guys, I'm sure if they wanted to be a top 5 or 10 qualifier they would do so, it just does not pay as well.

Sean

5919 SSKA · 07-23-2014, 03:21 PM

Mr. Cunningham sells a really nice ladder book, which can help you pretty quickly figure out where the 'sweet spots' are on any Sportsman ladder. It's a handy little tool IMO.

Bob Mulry · 07-23-2014, 03:30 PM

I don't understand how people look at our sport......

In a 26 car field if #14 qualified car beats #1 qualified car in the first round then that bye in the 2nd Round goes to the #14 qualifier.....

All you have do is win your round with #1 and you get their bye run......

Seem fair to me...

Just like Al Davis said "Just win baby"

7423 · 07-23-2014, 03:58 PM

The path of least resistence will net the most gain for the least amount of work. Just like in any other game, you are given a set of rules to play by. Using them to your best advantage is the most profitable way to play. I find it amazing to hear racers complaining about others lifting at 1000ft. Attaching numbers to where you qualify is only a way to form a ladder. There will always be a number 1 and a number last. Where you are in between will determine if you are home for lunch on Sunday or very early for breakfast on Monday.

Another Friendly Racer · 07-23-2014, 04:10 PM

I'd love to qualify in the bottom 8 in the scenario presented. No fast cars to race heads up in the first 3 rounds! There might really be a lot of game playing then. As we have learned through the years, be careful what you wish for.

Tony Janes · 07-23-2014, 04:14 PM

65 car field bye in the first bye into the final and there are others.

07-23-2014, 08:24 AM	#3
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,303 Likes: 198 Liked 116 Times in 48 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important My theory is if it's your day it's your day Mike Taylor 3601

07-23-2014, 09:57 AM	#4
5919 SSKA Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 284 Likes: 20 Liked 19 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important You could say that about ANY Stock or Super Stock race for the most part....there is always an easier path...........and a reason so many of the consistent Winners work the ladder. __________________ Racing web page

07-23-2014, 02:00 PM	#5
Sean Marconette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 958 Likes: 618 Liked 165 Times in 60 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important So because someone qualifies at the top of the pack they should get a free round? Not all combinations set the world on fire. The last time I checked, until the pairings go from an odd number of cars to an even number there has to be a bye run. I guess I do not get this thought process, unless a person is always at the top of the pack and thinks its unfair to have to make more elimination runs compared to a lower qualified car. Play the ladder if you can. It must not work too bad for the touring guys, I'm sure if they wanted to be a top 5 or 10 qualifier they would do so, it just does not pay as well. Sean __________________ Sean Marconette 84 Mustang 5060 SS/N

07-23-2014, 03:21 PM	#6
5919 SSKA Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 284 Likes: 20 Liked 19 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important Mr. Cunningham sells a really nice ladder book, which can help you pretty quickly figure out where the 'sweet spots' are on any Sportsman ladder. It's a handy little tool IMO. __________________ Racing web page

07-23-2014, 03:30 PM	#7
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,017 Likes: 57 Liked 321 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important I don't understand how people look at our sport...... In a 26 car field if #14 qualified car beats #1 qualified car in the first round then that bye in the 2nd Round goes to the #14 qualifier..... All you have do is win your round with #1 and you get their bye run...... Seem fair to me... Just like Al Davis said "Just win baby" __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports

07-23-2014, 04:03 AM	#1
Mike Schwartz Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland USA Posts: 497 Likes: 98 Liked 192 Times in 65 Posts	Where you qualify is very important There were 20 qualifiers in SS at Denver. The ladder NHRA uses in this situation is here: http://nhraracer.com/ladders/Ladders...Submit1=Submit. We see that: Qualifiers 1,6,11,16 have the following sequence to win the eliminator: Win,Win,Bye,Win,Win Qualifiers 2,4,7,9,12,14,17,19 have the following sequence to win the eliminator: Win,Win,Win,*Bye*,Win Qualifiers 3,5,8,10,13,15,18,20 have the following sequence to win the eliminator: Win,Win,Win,Win,Win Do you recognize which are the "qualifying positions of death"? Which qualifying group would you want to be in to have the best chance of winning the eliminator? Is it fair that under this system just as many bottom half qualifiers have a chance at a bye as top half qualifiers? In a 20 car field, 12 drivers can take the eliminator with four wins, and eight would need five. There is a way to modify the current ladder that would ensure that the eight bottom qualifiers are the ones that need to win five times.

07-23-2014, 03:58 PM	#8
7423 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 640 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Where you qualify is very important The path of least resistence will net the most gain for the least amount of work. Just like in any other game, you are given a set of rules to play by. Using them to your best advantage is the most profitable way to play. I find it amazing to hear racers complaining about others lifting at 1000ft. Attaching numbers to where you qualify is only a way to form a ladder. There will always be a number 1 and a number last. Where you are in between will determine if you are home for lunch on Sunday or very early for breakfast on Monday.

07-23-2014, 04:10 PM	#9
Another Friendly Racer Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 147 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important I'd love to qualify in the bottom 8 in the scenario presented. No fast cars to race heads up in the first 3 rounds! There might really be a lot of game playing then. As we have learned through the years, be careful what you wish for.

07-23-2014, 04:14 PM	#10
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 28 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Where you qualify is very important 65 car field bye in the first bye into the final and there are others. __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS