Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere - Page 4

Ed Wright · 06-13-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Lisson

Your picture looks exactly like my engine looked like, twice, trying them. I can tell you it wans't the cylinders, the second or the oil rings in my application because I changed the top ring and it ran perfect.

We never really figured out why or where the oil was coming from. I stand behind my previous post, get rid of them.

You have to run more oil ring with them. I agree, get rid of them. No power there.

Jody Lang · 06-14-2014, 12:01 AM

Why is there so much oil in the lifter valley?? Plugged (on purpose) drainback in block?

Are the heads really filling up with oil? Are the head oil returns blocked by the gasket?

Weird at a low rpm that the oil can't get back to pan.

I also noticed there's only oil in the two middle cylinders. Could this be a dual plane intake problem? You did say all plugs were wet though.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 06-14-2014, 07:52 AM

[QUOTE=Jody Lang;434745]Why is there so much oil in the lifter valley?? Plugged (on purpose) drainback in block?

Are the heads really filling up with oil? Are the head oil returns blocked by the gasket?

Weird at a low rpm that the oil can't get back to pan

Was looking at picture this morning,is there not a drain hole in right rear corner of block?
that is a lot of oil still standing back there, I would say it would get fairly deep in there running and would have to be over the hump of main oil galley,if does'nt have return hole there I would put one,I know some of the older blocks don't have holes at front above timing chain,I would put them if it does'nt have,make them low enough oil can't stand.
I would have good drain holes at all four corners and plug ones between lifters,that will cut down on windage.this is'nt oiling cylinders but could contribute to oil pressure fluctuations you had.

You don't possibly have windage tray that is filling up with oil and rotating assm. is running in pool of oil and slinging at cylinders.

Mike Taylor 3601

Terry Cain · 06-15-2014, 05:52 PM

Paul,
On very back of block in lifter valley is a hole that from the factory had a oil separator (baffle) which pushes into that hole (approx ! 1/4 hole and then a 7/16 head bolt holding it in place. Then that hole ends up coming out behind block on outside, right behind dist. Is that hole plugged on the outside of your block or do you have vacum on it to try and get rid of windage pressure inside motor? If you have vac on it, without the oil separator (baffle) in place it will suck oil like crazy.

gmonde · 06-15-2014, 07:33 PM

from what I can see in the pictures is the for a engine that only has only an hour of run time ,the oil is really black and that is showing combustion in the crank case and not letting the oil drain back because the pressure has to go some where , cant explain the standing oil in the valley other than a drain hole is covered ,, I would suspect the rings is problem one of 2 gmonde

Paul Merolla · 06-15-2014, 10:47 PM

Guys, the drain hole on that side is plugged to keep oil off the crank. (That was done long before I got the block.) The oil pressure issue went away when I changed the pump, I'm going to put the Schumann on an oil pump "dyno" when I get time. The oil looks black in the pics because it's green - Brad Penn.
Going to order a different top ring set this week and cross my fingers.

Ed Wright · 06-16-2014, 01:38 PM

Unplug that hole!

Jim Hanig · 06-22-2014, 11:10 AM

Paul did you get the oiling problem fixed.?

carl hinkson · 06-22-2014, 11:38 AM

Looks like some may have put the oil rings upside down. For the best results a plate hone is a must if your looking to achieve good ring seal.

GM blocks seem pretty frail and the cylinders will distort once the head is bolted on.

The cylinder show a lot of scuffing either debris or to tight of a fit or both.

Paul Merolla · 06-26-2014, 12:09 AM

I've been holding off posting on this until I had it fixed, so....
If anyone out there is considering gapless rings, DON'T DO IT!!!
On the advice of Mike Taylor, I got in touch with Gregg Luneack at Tri City Competition to talk about rings. It seems this is a very common issue with the Total Seal Gapless pieces of she-ite. Gregg hooked me up with a set of his Race Rings...he mailed them Saturday, I had them Monday morning. I got the thing back together and fired it up tonight, and whaddya know! No smoke!
I can't believe Total Seal continues to sell this garbage. I have not contacted them yet, but I will tomorrow. $350 down the toilet, not to mention countless hours of work and stress, plus missing a month of racing...I'm pissed.
And Ed, I opened up the hole like you said! Thanks to everyone for the info. We'll find out this weekend how much faster it is than last year.

06-14-2014, 12:01 AM	#32
Jody Lang Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 299 Likes: 28 Liked 81 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Why is there so much oil in the lifter valley?? Plugged (on purpose) drainback in block? Are the heads really filling up with oil? Are the head oil returns blocked by the gasket? Weird at a low rpm that the oil can't get back to pan. I also noticed there's only oil in the two middle cylinders. Could this be a dual plane intake problem? You did say all plugs were wet though.

06-14-2014, 07:52 AM	#33
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,303 Likes: 198 Liked 116 Times in 48 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere [QUOTE=Jody Lang;434745]Why is there so much oil in the lifter valley?? Plugged (on purpose) drainback in block? Are the heads really filling up with oil? Are the head oil returns blocked by the gasket? Weird at a low rpm that the oil can't get back to pan Was looking at picture this morning,is there not a drain hole in right rear corner of block? that is a lot of oil still standing back there, I would say it would get fairly deep in there running and would have to be over the hump of main oil galley,if does'nt have return hole there I would put one,I know some of the older blocks don't have holes at front above timing chain,I would put them if it does'nt have,make them low enough oil can't stand. I would have good drain holes at all four corners and plug ones between lifters,that will cut down on windage.this is'nt oiling cylinders but could contribute to oil pressure fluctuations you had. You don't possibly have windage tray that is filling up with oil and rotating assm. is running in pool of oil and slinging at cylinders. Mike Taylor 3601

06-15-2014, 05:52 PM	#34
Terry Cain Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Georgetown, Indiana (close to Louisville, KY) Posts: 760 Likes: 492 Liked 224 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Paul, On very back of block in lifter valley is a hole that from the factory had a oil separator (baffle) which pushes into that hole (approx ! 1/4 hole and then a 7/16 head bolt holding it in place. Then that hole ends up coming out behind block on outside, right behind dist. Is that hole plugged on the outside of your block or do you have vacum on it to try and get rid of windage pressure inside motor? If you have vac on it, without the oil separator (baffle) in place it will suck oil like crazy. __________________ Terry Cain ???? STK tcain@twc.com

06-15-2014, 07:33 PM	#35
gmonde Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 615 Likes: 56 Liked 166 Times in 59 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere from what I can see in the pictures is the for a engine that only has only an hour of run time ,the oil is really black and that is showing combustion in the crank case and not letting the oil drain back because the pressure has to go some where , cant explain the standing oil in the valley other than a drain hole is covered ,, I would suspect the rings is problem one of 2 gmonde

06-15-2014, 10:47 PM	#36
Paul Merolla Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 596 Likes: 194 Liked 232 Times in 57 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Guys, the drain hole on that side is plugged to keep oil off the crank. (That was done long before I got the block.) The oil pressure issue went away when I changed the pump, I'm going to put the Schumann on an oil pump "dyno" when I get time. The oil looks black in the pics because it's green - Brad Penn. Going to order a different top ring set this week and cross my fingers.

06-16-2014, 01:38 PM	#37
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 389 Times in 168 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Unplug that hole! __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

06-22-2014, 11:10 AM	#38
Jim Hanig Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pukwana SD Posts: 858 Likes: 555 Liked 97 Times in 47 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Paul did you get the oiling problem fixed.?

06-22-2014, 11:38 AM	#39
carl hinkson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NORTHEAST Posts: 287 Likes: 1 Liked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere Looks like some may have put the oil rings upside down. For the best results a plate hone is a must if your looking to achieve good ring seal. GM blocks seem pretty frail and the cylinders will distort once the head is bolted on. The cylinder show a lot of scuffing either debris or to tight of a fit or both.

06-26-2014, 12:09 AM	#40
Paul Merolla Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 596 Likes: 194 Liked 232 Times in 57 Posts	Re: Fresh rebuild, oil everywhere I've been holding off posting on this until I had it fixed, so.... If anyone out there is considering gapless rings, DON'T DO IT!!! On the advice of Mike Taylor, I got in touch with Gregg Luneack at Tri City Competition to talk about rings. It seems this is a very common issue with the Total Seal Gapless pieces of she-ite. Gregg hooked me up with a set of his Race Rings...he mailed them Saturday, I had them Monday morning. I got the thing back together and fired it up tonight, and whaddya know! No smoke! I can't believe Total Seal continues to sell this garbage. I have not contacted them yet, but I will tomorrow. $350 down the toilet, not to mention countless hours of work and stress, plus missing a month of racing...I'm pissed. And Ed, I opened up the hole like you said! Thanks to everyone for the info. We'll find out this weekend how much faster it is than last year.