New Indexs are up

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by SS3718

Kevin, my combination has a favorable hp factor. I don't think I've ever made a statement to the contrary.

Now, can you say honestly, with a straight face and self dignity, that other non-new car combinations are factored fairly and accurately?

Nick

Nick, most popular, older cars have been factored to death. Why anybody today, would build a carbed 327" or 350" Camaro is beyond me. Besides EFI (everybody's first mention) look at the compression ratio and cylinder head flow. I have told this before, Bobby Warren told me recently he had his LT1 on his dyno. He uses a single plane intake with a bolt-on elbow. (I have a sheet metal Hogan manifold, so I can't test this) He decided to try it with a good Quadrajet he had sitting there. Bingo! picked up 25 hp! It ain't the EFI making them fast. The LT1 throttle body is so small, if I drive mine hard out the back door it is pulling close to 5" manifold vacuum at 8700. As Bobby said, we already have restrictor plates.
Given as many years as the older cars, this engine will get factored hard as well. I just had a discussion with a man that works with a well known engine builder that builds engines for one of the fastest SS/GT 360" DP cars around, and builds some of the fast Lt1s out there right now. Same builder, same dyno, he says 70 hp difference! Same flow bench, over 60 cfm difference in the cylinder head intake ports. One full point compression. 10.5-1 for the LT1, 11.5-1 for the DP. Until late last year, they were rated 4 hp lower than the LT1. Now, finally, a whopping 9 hp higher. A DP owner (like Jeff ) telling an LT1 owner they need more hp (as Jeff tells me all the time) is like me telling somebody else they need to lose weight. :-)

As for the stick car deal, do you know of stick cars you can not run with? Or, just thinking about "just in case one shows up"?

[Mike Carr]

Just my $.02, but I think the Indexes should have been set in the middle. The higher classes, the Indexes are close. GT/A-GT/AA are one-tenth apart (10.00 to 10.10). SS/B, C and D, the indexes are the same for both transmissions (A and E are .05 apart). The lower classes are a much larger disparity. SS/K to /KA and GT/J to/JA are .25 apart.

[Jeff Teuton]

Bingo!!! Mike gets the stuffed bear. Think of me having to run with me and me as a passenger (or Larry Hill-take your pick) slim trim as I am at about 260 before beverages and that is what I got, the classes right below me also got almost the same treatment. .25, or the same as 250 lbs. with just a pencil. Now, why am I not happy. Ed, you ain't never happy, so you get the Chuck Raburn rule, you don't get a vote.

[Kevin Panzino]

Originally Posted by SS3718

Kevin, my combination has a favorable hp factor. I don't think I've ever made a statement to the contrary.

Now, can you say honestly, with a straight face and self dignity, that other non-new car combinations are factored fairly and accurately?

Nick

Nope, Nick, l'll have to say some combos are off by a few and can be considered not accurate.
I will however state, those differences are very minor compared to, say the ford 352 CJ and the Drag pack 360 and very few people were screaming over the minor discrepancies left in the 'old combos'. In fact the only one that comes to mind to me is the 235 HP 305, and even that is mere chump change compared to the rating atrocities of some of the new combinations.

Lets take the two of the new combos I am familiar with:
I believe your 352 has 11.25 compression, 2.08/1.6 valves, a throttle body with (4) 1.75" holes (thats 1,000 cfm for those who dont realize it) and its rated a whopping 285 HP.

The drag pak is similar at 11.4 compression, 2.02/1.6 valves, and the same awesome 1,000 cfm throttle body, and rated an earth shattering 275 HP.

Now I'll state again, all I ever wanted was to see these combinations properly factored, and didnt see the need for all new classes. But since for whatever reason, these combos where not ever going to be factored, they chose to make new classes. Not ideal, but something had to be done, because it was way WAY out of line.

[Kevin Panzino]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Bingo!!! Mike gets the stuffed bear. Think of me having to run with me and me as a passenger (or Larry Hill-take your pick) slim trim as I am at about 260 before beverages and that is what I got, the classes right below me also got almost the same treatment. .25, or the same as 250 lbs. with just a pencil. Now, why am I not happy. Ed, you ain't never happy, so you get the Chuck Raburn rule, you don't get a vote.

Jeff, the additional passenger reference is getting old... Your combo is rated at LEAST 40 HP light... Thats way more weight than a passenger, even Larry .. The way I see it, you guys made out two fold. One for being able to run that combo that underfactored for so long, and now for only losing .2 to .25 of index.

[Ed Wright]

Jeff, I don't have to run Drag Paks heads up now. I am very happy.
Like Kevin pointed out, they could have just correctly factored those engines, probably cheaper than making a bunch of new classes. Cheaper, at least for Nitro Joe's paper costs, and their own class trophy costs.
I am very happy, Jeff. Oh, I already said that. :-)

[SS3718]

Ed, one last question about HP factors and I'm finished posting! How fast did an LT1 combination identical to the engine you run go at the most recent US Nationals? I'm not looking for a paragraph response, simple ET and how far under the index will suffice!

Thanks, I hope my post on this subject didn't offend anyone as that was never my intent!

Nick Morris
GT/FSF
3718

[Ed Wright]

I don't know for sure. Rickey Decker told me he had enough of Larry Stewart and that DP in SS/IA the year before, so he dropped to SS/JA. He ran over a second under, but I don't remember how much. Jeff Donna ran over a second under as well. Don't remember how much either. Those are both professionally built engines. I'm not that fast. I piece my junk together best I can in my one car garage.

What do you race?

[LDFJR]

My .02 cents... the HP factors would all level out much faster if the "averaging" was discontinued. Both stock and super stock. Also I think a LOT of the bitching has been done by some owners whose cars would not be any more competitive no matter what the new cars did. Rayburn rule again...no vote!! Some of you guys know who you are..please remember that unless you inherited the car you picked the combo..not us.

[Kevin Panzino]

Nick, looking through Nitro Joes stats, I think that was Jeff Dona at 1.016 under ????