1965 US Nationals Stock Winner

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by John W. 1711

I stood next to the ramp truck, and the trailer, hauling the 70 Torino, and the 71 Mustang, in 1971. The Mustang was in SS/E, and the Torino was in SS/F, at least that was on the windows. Not sure what Bud was in at the 1970 race. The 429's were few, and far between. Great stuff for sure.

John,
Thanks, glad you were there. I wasnt sure why the car would have F/S written on the windshield at a SuperStock meet, I didnt know they ran stock class at those.

This raises another question though:
SS/E=8.00-8.49 lb/hp
SS/F=8.50-8.99 lb/hp

So the 429SCJ had to be seriously factored to make it up into these classes. For the 71 Mustang:
3485/435=8.01
3485/411=8.48
So to run in SS/E=8.00. the factored HP had to be between 411-435.

For the 70 Cobra:
3834/450=8.52
3834/427=8.98
So to run in SS/F=8.50, the factored HP had to be between 427-450.

To fit both cars, NHRA must have factored the 429SCJ/375 HP to 427-435, or probably 430 HP. If true, it's no wonder nobody ran these engines much, that is some pretty unfair factoring.

Are you SURE about the SS/E and SS/F markings?

I thought maybe you had the wrong year, but the SS/E and SS/F class breaks didnt change from 1970-1973 or later so that couldnt be it. Maybe they really did factor these things to 430hp. Dont know why.

Thanks again for helping solve this mystery.

[John W. 1711]

Yep, absolutely sure. I just looked at a photo of the Mustang. Car #1567, SS/E. I see the guy that owns both cars now and then. They have been restored to exact race condition.

[vic guilmino]

legal wt. for the torino was 3775
hp ithink was 425

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by vic guilmino

legal wt. for the torino was 3775
hp ithink was 425

Thanks Vic that makes sense. The current NHRA file says 3834 for the 70 Cobra, but those weights sometimes vary over time.

The 429 SCJ wasnt the greatest engine ever, mainly because the exhaust ports were so awful compared to the (too big) intakes. But it was still pretty underrated at 375hp so I've long wondered why so few show up in NHRA.

With headers, it Gonkulates to about 425hp gross so maybe that's how NHRA got that number. Not fair though, because that method would have factored a whole lot of other engines up higher too.

If it was factored to 425hp, taking the Torino / Cobra up THREE CLASSES, from 10.00 to 8.50 W/P class, that would explain why few ran it.

Vic,
PS, if the Holley 429/375SCJ was factored to 425hp, do you happen to recall what the Q-jet 429/370CJ was factored to?
When did they get factored so high? 1971-up?

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by John W. 1711

Yep, absolutely sure. I just looked at a photo of the Mustang. Car #1567, SS/E. I see the guy that owns both cars now and then. They have been restored to exact race condition.

I wonder what intakes those cars ran in SS/E & SS/F.
I had a couple street cars in the mid-1970s, the hottest setup I knew of back then was the factory iron 429SCJ intake. Heavy, but a good design. That gave other engines (428CJ etc) quite an edge though as they had dozens of intakes to pick from.

See picture:
This is the Drag News results from SS at the 1971 Indy nationals.
It shows Shellenberger as R/U in SS/E, sure enough.
Keying this into my file, I just figured, it must be a flat hood Fairlane 427 as that's the only Ford that meets that class. But sure enough it says MUSTANG right there! Is this the same 429SCJ Mustang?

[John W. 1711]

I saw a photo of the Torino the first year (1970) it ran. It was in E/S, #1726. It is running, what appears to be, 7" slicks. Bud put it in SS pretty quick. I live about 12 miles from Norris Ford.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by John W. 1711

I saw a photo of the Torino the first year (1970) it ran. It was in E/S, #1726. It is running, what appears to be, 7" slicks. Bud put it in SS pretty quick. I live about 12 miles from Norris Ford.

I just found this link:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/featu...back-in-action

Lots of pictures, old and new.
Bud signed his name so that pretty well settles the spelling!

Old 1971 pictures of the Mustang with SS/E on it sure enough.

This article again says Bud won class at 1970 Indy.
Shows a picture of Bud and the car (Torino).
Looks to me like a FLAT HOOD, but no markings E/S or F/S or G/S.
Maybe with a flat hood (no cold air) it ran in G/S in 1970?
I just cant figure why G/S doesnt show up on the 1970 Indy results sheet, nor does Bud's name. The mystery continues.
(I attached the 1970 Indy results sheet Tom Kaasch posted)

The 428CJ was factored at 340hp for the flat hood, and 360hp for the cold air or shaker hood. That's the only engine I can think of that was factored differently depending on air intake back pre-1972 anyway.

I wonder if the 429SCJ was factored the same - lower for the flat hood or C-code, higher for the shaker or J-code.

To run in E/S=9.00 class, the Torino had to be factored to 400-425hp.
To run in SS/F=8.50 class, the Torino had to factor at 420-450hp.
Without factoring, the Torino fits in G/S=10.00 class at 375hp.
I dont know what was actually used in 1970 vs 1971, flat hood vs cold air, but for sure the engine was factored up quite a bit.

[vic guilmino]

i do not think Bud ever won class with ever car

[John W. 1711]

Originally Posted by vic guilmino

i do not think Bud ever won class with ever car

Probably not. Does anyone remember Nelson, that worked with the Norris Ford Drag Team? I can't recall his last name.

[Dave Siltman]

Bud’s T-Bolt is still around and owned locally. The Mustang and Torino are both owned by the same fellow who races them periodically at nostalgia events. I’m not sure if the cars are full restorations, or are somewhat original and refurbished. I’m not a Ford guy, but they are killer cars as is the owner,