Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

It was a 350/2V car. I think that it ran in either W or X/SA during the "Pure Stock" era. I believe that he had a 77 LeMans wagon body stashed somewhere and he always wanted to do a 6X 400 for Q/SA.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...9&postcount=20

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=286

So, was that 4-door Lemans ever built ? Was there a build thread for it ?

Never mind, I found it. There was a build thread. But it ended before the car was finished. He was planning a 2-barrel 350.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=49597

Here's what I found in the last post. That kinda seals the deal for NOT running a Pontiac 350, with one of the small 2-barrels.

"Originally Posted by Danny Ashley View Post
Back in the late 80's when I had my 1974 GTO I considered the 2-bbl. because that body was a one engine combination for a 4-bbl. I obtained a manifold and carburetor and knowing that the late W.A.Lee worked on 2-bbl's, I sent it to him. He called me up and said they had tried it already and that the carb was too small and it would slow the car one and a half seconds. I had looked at Allen Peters at the time and made my decision off him but W.A. informed me that the '69 Chevy had a much larger venturi. He didn't want to do it because he felt I was wasting my time and sent it back. I really didn't think it would kill it that much so I decided to try it anyway.
It was in the fall and we had decent air but nothing like I had just ran at the Keystones where I was no.1 qualifier and ran 11.97 in L/SA which was really quick for that time. The car at that time with the 2 bbl. was P/SA and the index was an odd number for some reason of 13.54. My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52. The car had no power. I had to almost floor it to do a burnout. I came back and installed the 4-bbl. set-up which is quick to do on a Pontiac and went right back up and went 12.22. I'll admit that the car could go quicker with maybe more gear, smaller headers, cam change, etc. but it didn't look worth the time and money to flogg it out especially when the 4bbl. was so good.
One last thought. Please don't base the 2bbl. combination off of Bill Rink's car. Bill is a good friend and carburetor customer and I can tell you that his engine is a "Top Shelf" Parson & Meyers piece as is everything else on the car. Definitely not a "Dime Rocket". Just a "Rocket" in it's day."

Seems that the only way to run a 350 or larger Pontiac engine with a 2-barrel is to get NHRA to lower the index for the car to a reasonable level. So, basically, it's Q-jet, or not at all.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44903

Ya know, as far as the other stuff, "Gentlemen don't tell".

Never thought about anybody racing with a Dualjet. Have you had an opportunity to get one working right, for racing ? Are there lots of Stockers running a Dualjet, nowadays ?

[Billy Nees]

I think that the 1K car ran OK for what it was. I never really spent the time to completely sort it out.
The only dualjet combo that I know of running right now would be the 267 Chevys.

[oldskool]

Just got an Email back from the Butlers. They don't do Stocker engine builds either.

They recommend Mike McKinney, in Indiana. I know that Mike did a lot of racing with Pontiacs. Didn't know he was building Stocker engines for others. Found his FB page, & sent a friend request. Not much posted there, so he may not even use it. His son Marty is on my friends list. But, I've posted & ask him a question. There has been no reply & nothing posted on his page since.

So, anybody have contact info for Mike ?

I found a couple of pics. One shows Mike driving the Hard Times '68 Bird that was Truman Fields' car that he won the '73 US Nats with. Mike then won the '77 US Nats with it. The pic shows the car at the Gators. It was an article in a 1979 newspaper. It said that Mike had won a race in '77. I assume they were referring to that US Nats win. But, I'm not sure. So, did Mike also win the Gators one year ?

The other pic I found is of a For Sale ad for Truman Fields' Hard Times Bird. Says it was a D/S record holder, which would run 11.50's. price $3500.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Seems that the only way to run a 350 or larger Pontiac engine with a 2-barrel is to get NHRA to lower the index for the car to a reasonable level. So, basically, it's Q-jet, or not at all.

Don, If you notice, the 2 bbl hp was last lowered in 2002. Many decades after Don Himes' 74 wagon. Also a few years after Danny's experiment. I would guess that someone with a 4 bbl car, had enough of that combo, after Bill Rink got through with it.
They will now run Q/SA and down.
An all out 2 bbl. combo will take a different gear, converter, headers, camshaft, and a different tune up.
With today's technology and available goodies, plus the fact that they've got Ray Charles checking carburetors now, I 'd say a Q/SA Ventura would go at least .5 under. I know it would with a stick.
Not a rocket ship, but should be easy to build, and fairly cheap ( in perspective, that is)

[Charlene Wood]

Originally Posted by oldskool

More Gary Wood.

1st pic is of Gary makin a little smoke with his '72 GTO. One is for his class win, with Tons. And one is for his event win at the Summers, with the 2nd gen Bird.

I think that is me in the GTO

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Charlene Wood

I think that is me in the GTO

Welcome to the Class Racer forum !

You may think this sounds really strange, coming from someone you don't know. But you can't imagine how glad I am that you joined & posted !!!

I have LOTS of questions about the cars & racing you & Gary did back in the old days. You were among my earliest Pontiac heroes, along with Truman Fields, Jack Mullins & a few others.

I've posted pics of ya'll & your cars on LOTS of Pontiac forums & FB pages, thru the years.

Before I bombard you with questions, first I'd like to ask if it's OK ???

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Don, If you notice, the 2 bbl hp was last lowered in 2002. Many decades after Don Himes' 74 wagon. Also a few years after Danny's experiment. I would guess that someone with a 4 bbl car, had enough of that combo, after Bill Rink got through with it.
They will now run Q/SA and down.
An all out 2 bbl. combo will take a different gear, converter, headers, camshaft, and a different tune up.
With today's technology and available goodies, plus the fact that they've got Ray Charles checking carburetors now, I 'd say a Q/SA Ventura would go at least .5 under. I know it would with a stick.
Not a rocket ship, but should be easy to build, and fairly cheap ( in perspective, that is)

Wow ! So you think somebody ran a 2-barrel '74 Vent, and got NHRA to lower the hp factor. Any idea who that might have been, & how quick they ran ?

I also came up with some more 2-barrel questions. On the Class Racer Info site, the listings for the earlier model Pontiacs list the carb number or numbers, but there are no numbers given for the Venturi size.

So, can somebody here look up those numbers & determine what the venturi size was on 'em ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2057

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

OK. The '74-'76's have one of the 1.25 Venturi carbs, on a 400 engine. The '74 can also use the same #46 heads as the '74 350 engines used. So, might this engine have potential, if you could get the hp factor down some ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

The '74 can also be used in a Bird, as well as the A-bodies & most of the heavier bodies. So, how about this engine in a base model '74 Bird ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2086

It obviously wouldn't work at 255hp, since the Q-jet version is only 275hp. Question: How much would the 1.25V 2-barrel slow this engine down, from the Q-jet version, with both built to equal levels ?

At 225hp, a Bird could add a little weight & run P/SA, with a 13.45 index. So, anybody think a '74 1.25V 2-barrel 400 could run 13.45 or quicker ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

[oldskool]

Another question:

I just noticed that the auto trans version of the '68 350 2-barrel engine, came with the 2-speed ST-300 trans.

(1) Under current rules, could you run a Glide in this combo ?

(3) Could you run a 3-speed auto, like a TH350 ?

Sorry, I'm just not up on all the rules. Makes sense that you'd have to keep the same number of speeds.

[oldskool]

OK, the nat event schedule gets cranked up today, at the Pomona Winter Nats.

Every year at this time, I think about the Pontiac powered cars that did good there, back in the early '60's. In '62, Mickey Thompson's 421SD powered A/FX Tempest won the class, with Hayden Proffitt driving.

And I've mentioned that Carol Cox became the 1st female to win a class, at a nat event, winning the S/SA class.

A '63 Tempest won the A/FX class in '63. Not sure of all the other Pontiac wins back in those days. As mentioned, I've read that in those early days, the A/FX & S/SA classes ran in "Top Stock". But, the class was called SS, by some, even back in those early days.

"... Factory Experimental Pontiac Tempests.

The first one appeared in 1962 at the NHRA Winternationals, built at Mickey Thompson’s shop in Long Beach, CA, by Hayden
Proffitt and Lloyd Cox. It was a standard 4-cylinder Pontiac Tempest Le Mans, now fitted with a 421 Super Duty engine and
transmission out of one of Mickey Thompson’s Super Stock cars (legal Super Stock engines were an NHRA requirement at the time). The stock Tempest rear swing-axle was replaced by a Pontiac Catalina rear end. In short, it was a 1962 Pontiac Super Stocker in a compact Tempest body/chassis. It dominated the A/FX class at the 1962 NHRA Winternationals.

What worked well in the FX class in 1962, built by independent racers, would work just as well in 1963, built by the factory and distributed to the favored Pontiac racers around the country. Whereas the full size Catalina sedans had a 119 inch wheelbase, the Pontiac Tempest was built on a much smaller (and lighter) 112 inch wheelbase.

A total of twelve Pontiac Tempest A/FX cars were built, all with the 421 Super Duty engines. Six were Tempest coupes and six were Tempest station wagons. All the factory cars were delivered with a special rear-mounted trans-axle set up but many of the racers eventually switched to the standard engine-mounted transmissions and the Catalina rear axle assembly..."