Gator class teardowns

[Larry Hill]

What Dan said!

A 400 will suck those thin TPI tubes flat.

[jmcarter]

Dan, think most have realized this is the new reality and I (and perhaps many others) appreciate your public acknowledgement of it given your stature in Class racing. Unfortunately, the sports world offers far too many examples where people were easily influenced by 'fame' to blatantly break the rules. Baseball doping, electric motors within the frame rails of bicycles, etc demonstrate that the peers of such cheaters are reluctant to call them out. One has to wonder if the current 'tech' (non-teardown) approach will extend even to Indy and if so then what happens? Perhaps NHRA takes another .3 off the indexes because people can suddenly easily go 1.5 under? Are we then just competing in 'crate motor' classes?

One of the downsides to the Gators great attendance (partially due to weather of course) is that it might reinforce the NHRA notion that their current approach is correct as evidenced by a better bottom line. However the playing field changes; however, I'm sure the winners will do that by virtue of hard work and true skill...good luck in your quest for 100 (and many more).

An aside on the Gators, did anybody else notice that with two pair left in the second round of Stock class eliminations that NHRA brought out the Leah Drag Pak/ Papa John Camaro 'match race' and that they had to pull the tractors back twice so that class eliminations could resume? Ridiculous....about as much as the first round of Top Fuel on Sunday when the 'filler' cars made embarrassing showings....they might as well go to eight car fields and save everyone the time. Face it; when Connie, John, and Don finally get too old their show will fold, supposedly to be replaced by 64 car Pro Mod fields with the assorted belt sander, no prep drag radial classes thrown in to round out the program.

[BRETV]

Originally Posted by Dan Fletcher

With all due respect, there isn't even an entry tech inspection anymore, just a random spot check at some point during qualifying. The tech department appears to have been gutted by budget cuts just like most every other aspect of the company that is representative to the sportsman racer. You actually think there is manpower to do teardown? Simply not happening. If you want to cheat and can somehow feel good about yourself or your accomplishments, now is your time...

Sad really sad, maybe it will get better, we can only hope!! Good luck on #100!!





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

[Casey Miles]

It's a shame that you pay for your membership so NHRA can do their do diligence and they don't. A pair of tech people came around and sealed my carburetor, I though for sure I was going to come apart, but no, they did it to everyone. The policing of racers is put by the wayside to get the show on, not fair to racers that toe the line.

Casey Miles
248H

[Toby Lang]

Originally Posted by Dan Fletcher

If you want to cheat and can somehow feel good about yourself or your accomplishments, now is your time...

Hey, I know nobody would blatantly cheat in D7 or have 5-10 people knowingly help them blatantly cheat either.

[Casey Miles]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

Hey, I know nobody would blatantly cheat in D7 or have 5-10 people knowingly help them blatantly cheat either.

This not about anybody cheating, it's about NHRA keeping integrity in the sport, which everybody who races with a membership paid for. NHRA is too easily let off the hook because of their claim of man power.

Casey Miles
248H

[Ok stocker]

Originally Posted by jmcarter

Dan, think most have realized this is the new reality and I (and perhaps many others) appreciate your public acknowledgement of it given your stature in Class racing. Unfortunately, the sports world offers far too many examples where people were easily influenced by 'fame' to blatantly break the rules. Baseball doping, electric motors within the frame rails of bicycles, etc demonstrate that the peers of such cheaters are reluctant to call them out. One has to wonder if the current 'tech' (non-teardown) approach will extend even to Indy and if so then what happens? Perhaps NHRA takes another .3 off the indexes because people can suddenly easily go 1.5 under? Are we then just competing in 'crate motor' classes?

One of the downsides to the Gators great attendance (partially due to weather of course) is that it might reinforce the NHRA notion that their current approach is correct as evidenced by a better bottom line. However the playing field changes; however, I'm sure the winners will do that by virtue of hard work and true skill...good luck in your quest for 100 (and many more).

An aside on the Gators, did anybody else notice that with two pair left in the second round of Stock class eliminations that NHRA brought out the Leah Drag Pak/ Papa John Camaro 'match race' and that they had to pull the tractors back twice so that class eliminations could resume? Ridiculous....about as much as the first round of Top Fuel on Sunday when the 'filler' cars made embarrassing showings....they might as well go to eight car fields and save everyone the time. Face it; when Connie, John, and Don finally get too old their show will fold, supposedly to be replaced by 64 car Pro Mod fields with the assorted belt sander, no prep drag radial classes thrown in to round out the program.

I thought the gators always has great attendance?

[nhramnl]

My post regarding my "no teardown" combination was obviously a joke, but the more posts I read, the more serious the issue becomes to me. Dan is absolutely correct in his assessment of the situation. Stock and Super Stock have really never been "fair", because there have always been combinations that were unrealistically soft (at least for a while) and the OEMs have certainly had influence on rules and indexes, but if we are entering a period where there is effectively no tech inspection or teardown, I think as "class racers", we're done. Like everything else in life, the distribution of racers will fall under a Bell curve: there will be people who will adhere to the rules as a matter of integrity and pride, those who will be ethically OK with "bending" the rules, and those who will outright cheat. I think of what our society would be like without any police-type presence and I don't have to exaggerate much to assume that we would quickly become a lawless people, ruled by savages. With no penalty for cheating, those who would otherwise cheat freely (if there was no "cost" associated with being caught), will. Over the years, NHRA has completely lost it's way, and has entirely forgotten why it came into existence in the first place. I know it's been discussed to death, but it might be time for a Sportsman-only sanctioning body, that focuses ONLY on the racing, not $75 spectator passes, $30 t-shirts and $5 hot dogs.

[fordteacherguy]

Originally Posted by Dan Fletcher

With all due respect, there isn't even an entry tech inspection anymore, just a random spot check at some point during qualifying. The tech department appears to have been gutted by budget cuts just like most every other aspect of the company that is representative to the sportsman racer. You actually think there is manpower to do teardown? Simply not happening. If you want to cheat and can somehow feel good about yourself or your accomplishments, now is your time...

There are only two things that keeps cheating off of the race track...integrity or paranoia. The first you don't have to worry about...those who have it carry it all the time ..the second set need the rules in place to keep in line. So we need some simple paranoia back in the rules again...how about ALL WINNERS UNDERGO TECHNICAL INSPECTION! Note...I don't wan't that defined what that means..tear down..maybe..look for electronic goodies...maybe. The argument of "what happens if they don't pass?" can be easily dealt with with simple rule changes. Since NHRA doesn't have the manpower or talent to inspect all class cars for legality in the beginning...at least have the manpower to inspect 1 car at the end. Personally I would rather tear my car down at the end of the race and load it up and put it together at home. Ever leave a race after winning or runner up? You are not going anywhere for hours anyway. BRING BACK PARANOIA! ALL WINNERS UNDERGO TECHNICAL INSPECTION!

[Dwight Southerland]

Maybe I should start a separate thread for this and I will if it gains traction. I hear from many people who are currently involved and have been involved with NHRA the comment that "Stock and Super Stock costs NHRA money". That may be from management stating that there are costs associated with Stock and Super Stock that other categories do not have (which would include extra tech expense), or that they actually lose money on Stock and Super Stock because of the extra operating expense. I have never seen actual business level documents that have a cost breakdown associated with the categories (My! That would be a novel consideration!). Let's assume that NHRA's continuing reduction of tech services for Stock and Super Stock is partially due to the costs associated with maintaining an acceptable level of tech support. The question is, would you as a racer be willing to pay an extra "Tech fee" for National, Divisional and National Open races to ensure adequate tech service which would include guaranteed teardowns and monitoring?