Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[Billy Nees]

The biggest issue that you're going to have in building the "cheapest" Pontiac combo is going to be finding a body. Where are you going to find a "cheap", decent (not needing to spend 5K and a year in body shop prison) car?

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

The biggest issue that you're going to have in building the "cheapest" Pontiac combo is going to be finding a body. Where are you going to find a "cheap", decent (not needing to spend 5K and a year in body shop prison) car?

Yeah, that's a good point.

My thought is that anybody who'd attempt to build a really CHEAP Pontiac powered Stocker, would have all the basic skills to build a car from the ground up.

For example: My neighbor is a long time Pontiac guy. He's built & raced quite a few Pontiac bracket cars, including a couple that went well into the nines. He also restores old Pontiacs, including complete frame-off builds. He can do just about everything, including building the engine. If I had the money, he'd probably be all in on building a Stocker. Another Pontiac neighbor would also help. There are probably Pontiac friends all over the country who could get together on a Stocker project. Some of the Pontiac clubs probably have members who would enjoy a Stocker club project.

Our local track don't run Stock. So, we'd have to tow several hundred miles, to run 'em. Would have to be a dual purpose car, running mostly local bracket races, to justify having a Stocker.

There was a family in a nearby city with the last name Cardwell. They had several competitive cars, for years. Many of the older div 4 guys here will remember them. You can still find their name on some of the DRC race result lists. One brother's name was Ronnie, the other Doug.

The reason I mention them is because they built a '69 350HO Tempest, as a Stocker. Don't have a clue why( I think I'll ask 'em), since they were always Chevy guys. I have the dyno sheet showing that it made 434hp. Anyhow, after it was built, it didn't show enuff potential for them, only running mid 12's, before doing any serious tuning & tweaking. Had they known anything about Pontiacs, they would have chosen a better combo.

So, they sold it to a local Chevy bracket racer. He immediately wound it up too high & broke a stock rod. He had another short block built, & got it running, then put it up for sale, That's when I bought it, for $7k, in 2009.

Had 2 bracket cars. Bought a 7.3 diesel crew cab dually, & a 2-car gooseneck, & planned to race a lot at our local track, in 2010. But, our local track did not open at all in 2010. So I sold the truck & trailer. Sold the Tempest to my Pontiac neighbor, and sold my other bracket car as a roller. I assumed my local track was history, just as most of the other tracks we use to race are.

I began foolin around with a little dirt racing, at our local track. Then the drag strip opened back up. Kept running for a few years, so I decided to put another bracket car together. The neighbors helped & it would have been ready for the 2017 season. So, I bought a nice open car trailer & a used 2500 HD GMC, & was ready for 2017.

But, the 2 track owners had a fallin out, and the track was sold to a bank, at auction. No racing in 2017. So, I sold my '68 Bird as a roller. The track is on good river bottom land. So, I assumed it would be sold & farmed. Not so. One of the former owners bought it back, & resumed racing.

So, I bought an '80 Bird, & put my 455/TH400 in it. Hope to make a few passes this year. The only reason I'm telling all this is to let ya'll know a little more about me. I'm not some flake trying to impress a bunch of serious racers.

Below are some pics of the '69 Tempest, as it was when I bought it, then as it looked after my neighbor did a frame-off rebuild into a sort of a modified "ET" tribute car. For those who don't know, the ET was a prototype of a car that was never put into production. It is said to be the forerunner of the Judge. It was to be on a basic Tempest/Lemans body, and use a 350HO for power.

The 1st few paragraphs of this article tells the ET story.

https://silodrome.com/pontiac-gto-judge/

http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2009...ontiac-et.html

Some here may remember the Don Turk car that was for sale, for $10,500, IIRC. That was a bargain, IMO. I think the new owner won a couple of div races with it last season. If I'd had the money, I'd have bought that car.

Anyhow, it don't have to cost a fortune to build a decent Pontiac powered Stocker. But, if you must pay to have all the work done, including $5k plus for body/paint work, then the price will obviously be high. As for the body, I figure there are still a few usable bodies for less than $5k. And if you can do all the body work, quite a bit less than $5k, will probably buy something usable. Guys here are always talkin about how Stock/SS guys should know how to work on there cars to make 'em faster. Well, I think most guys who don't have big bucks must have good car building skills, in order to build a Stocker for a reasonable price.

Hey, these are just my thoughts & opinions. And, as we all know, opinions differ.

[gmonde]

there was a car Stephen Pontiac campaigned back in the day this would have been a D1 car 69 firebird 400 car , I know the person who has it ,, any one have any pictures?

[Mark Yacavone]

The sad fact is hardly anyone builds their own stuff anymore. Add to this that several good "brand name" builders won't touch a real Pontiac engine.

I had a 77 Bonneville roller for sale about 7-8 years ago. Rust free Ca. car. With a 400/260, it will run N/SA where it doesn't need a roll bar...Easy 1 second under car.
I had it for sale here for about 3 months. Never got the slightest nibble. Ended up scrapping it.
Another fact is , if you can afford to play the NHRA game, most people want to do it with a 10 second car. Win or lose, you get to do a big wheelie.
Ask again, what it costs to build a low 10 second Ram Air IV car . You'll have your answer why you don't see many Pontiac anymore.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by gmonde

there was a car Stephen Pontiac campaigned back in the day this would have been a D1 car 69 firebird 400 car , I know the person who has it ,, any one have any pictures?

This it ?

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

The sad fact is hardly anyone builds their own stuff anymore. Add to this that several good "brand name" builders won't touch a real Pontiac engine.

I had a 77 Bonneville roller for sale about 7-8 years ago. Rust free Ca. car. With a 400/260, it will run N/SA where it doesn't need a roll bar...Easy 1 second under car.
I had it for sale here for about 3 months. Never got the slightest nibble. Ended up scrapping it.
Another fact is , if you can afford to play the NHRA game, most people want to do it with a 10 second car. Win or lose, you get to do a big wheelie.
Ask again, what it costs to build a low 10 second Ram Air IV car . You'll have your answer why you don't see many Pontiac anymore.

Yeah, that Bonny would work. As most Pontiac guys know, Bob Michael built a '77 Catalina. And before that a '77 Lemans, which Dave Ribeiro has now.

Bruce Noland is building a '69 Bird. Don't know what engine he'll run. He may have said & I just don't remember. I do remember that he said it has the aftermarket block. so it's a serious build. Lookin forward to seeing how it does. It's been posted that John Schloe switched over to D-ports after he messed up a RAIV head. And we all know that Scott Burton sold his '70 RAIV, and it was shipped overseas.

"...several good "brand name" builders won't touch a real Pontiac engine..."

Apparently, Parsons & Myers will. And there are obviously several others, since there are still quite a few Pontiac Stockers & Super Stockers running.

While on that subject, I'll just go ahead & ask the question to all you forum guys. Besides Parsons & Myers, what good engine builders can & will work on Pontiac Stock/SS engines ?

Pretty sure there are several well known Pontiac engine builders, who can build the shortblock.

https://www.dcimotorsports.com/servi...ngine-builder/

I'll ask around & add others that can build Pontiac Stocker engines.

This shop built a 400 engine for East Coast GT SS racer Vic Santos. His car ran real good. so, they can probably also do a Stocker engine.

http://www.bouchersracing.com/racers/

Now, when it comes to the head tricks, like acid porting or whatever they're doin to heads these days, that might require a shop that sorta specializes in that type of work. I remember reading a section on the Heads-Up site, describing their procedure. But, that section was later deleted.

https://www.headsupcylinderheads.com/services2.html

Julie Biermann drives a quick '68 Bird Stocker, built by Tim Gillespie. It has a Heads-Up decal on it. See pic below.

There are several competitive Pontiac racers gettin 'em built somewhere. Just did a real quick check of my records. I have pics of more than 50 Pontiac Stockers that have raced this century. And, most of the cars are still racing. I realize there are thousands of other brand Stockers out there. But, if there were thousands of Pontiacs, there would really be no reason for this thread. Most all the Chevy combos have been beat to death for a LONG time, & most here know all about 'em. So, probably not too many guys would wanna hear it all again.

[gsa612]

For engine builder Lance Line,he does the motors for Ron Prince's 'bird and Brad Koivisto's 74 GTO...gsa612

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by gsa612

For engine builder Lance Line,he does the motors for Ron Prince's 'bird and Brad Koivisto's 74 GTO...gsa612

Hey, that's good info !

Looks like he has a repair shop & dyno, in Wright, MN.

https://www.google.com/search?q=line...2UgaW4gbW4;mv:[[46.8333776,-92.5478318],[43.957622699999995,-93.6395369]]

I think Brad's car is the quickest '74 GTO Stocker ever. Runs low 11's.

And Ron Prince's '68 Bird runs high 10's.

There were 5 Pontiacs in the upper half of this Q-list, including Brad & Ron.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=313163

[oldskool]

OK, I think I mentioned Ryan Warter's '75 Formy, & even posted a video of his win at the Northwest Nats.

The only '76 Bird Stocker I remember ever seeing belonged to Mike Morgan. He won the K/SA class with it, at the 2014 US Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

After that, Mike sold the car & bought the '77 350 powered SS Formy from Sal Piacentini.

Last I knew, the '76 Stocker belonged to Kevin Love.

To that car I'll add some '77 Bird Stockers I've known of, that have run this century. Don't know the history of most of 'em. I suspect that most have changed hands one or more times.

I'll start with 2 nat record holders. One belonged to Bill Edgeworth, the other to Dave Ribeiro. The next one belongs to Chad Smith. It's the former Paul Dilcher car.

The next 3 were driven by Tommy Pettigrew, Rob Holmes, & Mike Moyer.

The last one is driven by Dylan Biondo. It's been in the Biondo family for years. I know Sal & Peter drove it some.

We've talked about some of these cars. Maybe some of you guys can give us the history of some of 'em.

One thing I DO know. These cars, with the 400 engine have really taken a severe hit. I think it's really sorta overkill, to add 23 hp to an engine, just because it's in a Firebird body. Seems to make more common sense to factor the engine the same, no matter what body it's in. But, I've already said that. And I'm sure others have said the same about other brand engines.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

[oldskool]

At this 2001 Vegas Summit Nats race, Neil Smedley was #1 qualifier @ 1.305 under, & won the race, with his 301T '81 Bird ! That's a pretty impressive Pontiac sweep !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

I know VERY little about those 301T engines. About all I know is that the turbo cranks are stronger, & the blocks with 301T on the side, are stronger than the earlier blocks that didn't have 301T on the side.

I'd like for Rick Unterseh, & others who know about 'em, to post all the info you can share about racing a 301T car.

I assume that anyone who has seriously raced one has blown some up.