Blanket policies on HP Factors

Chipper Chapman · 01-03-2023, 06:53 PM

As some of you may have noticed, my combo got a hp reduction this year, due to my request. (‘69 Chevelle 396/350/335 now 330) and at the same time, the powers at be decided seemingly on their own (no explanation from them) to allow the different intakes to be swapped between 69 (one year only intake) and the 65-68 oval port engines. The odd thing is that they also changed the 68 Chevelle 396/350/340 down to 330 and are now saying that they are same combo so same hp applies. Meanwhile have no intention to level all the Camaro/nova factors from year to year, or the 396/325 factors year to year. Let alone all the other blanket policy combos that have come up over the last few years with addition of ‘alternate’ castings. Yes I’m whining I know, but large part of running this combo was to be one of very few if not the only one, and this could open some flood gates up, and not just for me. Has anyone else noticed these blanket adjustments being made with their combos? Is this going to become the new normal?

1347 · 01-03-2023, 11:16 PM

Congratulations on your HP reduction. Just being curious, I looked up the 68 and 69 396 350 combos, and line for line, they appear to be identical engines. The 68 and 69 Chevelle body is almost an identical car. What would be the reason they shouldn't be lumped together? I am only asking this because there are many model cars that span more than one year with the same engine, and those cars all have the same hp. The 67 and 68 Camaro 350 295 combo were both factored to 286 at the same time. Wouldn't that be the same thing? The 83 and 84 Mustang 302 175 combo were also both raised to 205 at the same time also. I think you will find its more common than you think.

Chipper Chapman · 01-03-2023, 11:32 PM

So up until Jan 1/23 the 69 engines had only the 067 Casting intake (one year only) and 68 had the 948 casting. This went for both the 325 and 350 hp engines. They have always been factored differently due to that. If you look at the current advertised ratings for the 325hp combos (324 for 68 and 316 for 69) you’ll see that still there. For some reason NHRA decided to blanket the intakes on both combos effective Jan 1, and adjust both 350hp combos to the same, while they were different (68 was 340 and 69 335). they are claiming no performance difference in intakes, I have seen the difference. I can’t understand how they can supersede what the general submitted as the correct parts used, without anyone even asking for it. I’d have to say they are starting to blanket similar combos to weed out oddballs that create more work for them. Just another watering down of stock eliminator you could say

killintime6968 · 01-03-2023, 11:43 PM

I just looked and I see they did the same on 68 and 69 nova's with the intakes. But no change with the horsepower ratings. The 68 is still rated at 340hp and 69 at 335hp. I guess i will have too run as a 69 now with better rating.

Dave Casey · 01-04-2023, 08:26 AM

Very well could be that someone requested the intake change, could've provided documentation that there was overlap with those casting numbers. I doubt that they went looking for this without something prompting them.

1347 · 01-04-2023, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Casey

Very well could be that someone requested the intake change, could've provided documentation that there was overlap with those casting numbers. I doubt that they went looking for this without something prompting them.

I think you are correct Dave, NHRA reacts for the most part. Someone probably came to them and requested that intake to be approved. They did the same thing on some small block 4bbl intakes that were one year only. I think we are responsible for most of these changes.

TBear5033 · 01-06-2023, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipper Chapman

Has anyone else noticed these blanket adjustments being made with their combos? Is this going to become the new normal?

Yes - 2 years ago there was an hp adjustment created by a 305 powered '84 Cutlass. Very few runs in 1 class, this was the only car but when the adjustment came out, it lumped all 80-84 305s in all G-bodies. When asked what the average was of all the cars now impacted, NHRA didn't consider the overall average, they just approved another intake for all years, all models and gifted everyone hp... citing no rational for the lumping of things together that had always been separate.

Terry Cain · 01-07-2023, 09:46 AM

Well,
Kinda wish they would lump all the intakes together for my combo. There's 3 intakes for the 68-69 427 Quadrajet Corvettes. 3919849, 3937793, and the 3947801. I realize we're racing for truck loads of money but each one of these aluminum intakes currently brings about $500-700 each (if ya can find) and they are all 50 plus years old.

Mike Volkman · 01-09-2023, 03:07 PM

Can't speak to stock combos but can to SS.

Several years back (10-15 years) NHRA started splitting the same engine combination up - AT THE RACERS REQUEST - to protect their combinations. We called it the Bob Dennis rule. Smart guy who had 57000 combinations of Olds engines.

I get it we all spend lots of time and money to go the fastest.

If the head gasket was .002 different, the cc or runner volume varied by couple cc, smaller vs larger carb it was now a different combination. Back then, we always picked the best engine combination with the parts given. There was (and probably still is) a 305 combination that has a head p/n listed among several others in the blueprint sheets, but is not in the approved head list with port volumes. Because of this bogus p/n it now make it a different combination even though there are no specs. I think there were 5 or 6 305 SS combos (trying to remember) as a result of this splitting of hairs. It resulted in never being able to push the other guy out as they just played a number/paper game with combo. Nothing new.

At one time, again in SS, there were 4-318 combinations to pick from. Now there are many across SS because of the change.

This rolling back on combos into base groupings started 2-3 years ago. The 67-69 350/300 was the 1st I knew of. They were NHRA rated anywhere from 313 to 332 with the same engine. They're back to 2 now with a rating of 313 for OEM head and 318 with aftermarket. And, NHRA did not hurt the higher factored combos - actually had the racer in mind -and based it off the OEM head, or lower HP rating. Good deal I thought.

I for one applaud them for taking the initiative and think that since we are a performance based class, that we should all race each other and not hide.

TERRY HEMBREE · 01-09-2023, 04:24 PM

I questioned Pat C last year why the 68 and 69 350/396 Camaros had different hp ratings because the 68 only had been reduced to 330. He said the reason was because of the intakes and if I wanted him to consider lowering the 69 to 330 then I had to send him both year intakes so he could scan them to see if they were equal. I had no interest in doing that so I left it at that. So now for some reason the Chevelles and the 68 Camaro are at 330 the 69 Camaro is still 340.

01-03-2023, 06:53 PM	#1
Chipper Chapman Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Belmont N.S. Canada Posts: 452 Likes: 211 Liked 142 Times in 64 Posts	Blanket policies on HP Factors As some of you may have noticed, my combo got a hp reduction this year, due to my request. (‘69 Chevelle 396/350/335 now 330) and at the same time, the powers at be decided seemingly on their own (no explanation from them) to allow the different intakes to be swapped between 69 (one year only intake) and the 65-68 oval port engines. The odd thing is that they also changed the 68 Chevelle 396/350/340 down to 330 and are now saying that they are same combo so same hp applies. Meanwhile have no intention to level all the Camaro/nova factors from year to year, or the 396/325 factors year to year. Let alone all the other blanket policy combos that have come up over the last few years with addition of ‘alternate’ castings. Yes I’m whining I know, but large part of running this combo was to be one of very few if not the only one, and this could open some flood gates up, and not just for me. Has anyone else noticed these blanket adjustments being made with their combos? Is this going to become the new normal? __________________ Chris Chapman 1969 Chevelle NHRA F-G/SA 1090

01-03-2023, 11:16 PM	#2
1347 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe Twp NJ Posts: 453 Likes: 925 Liked 926 Times in 240 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Congratulations on your HP reduction. Just being curious, I looked up the 68 and 69 396 350 combos, and line for line, they appear to be identical engines. The 68 and 69 Chevelle body is almost an identical car. What would be the reason they shouldn't be lumped together? I am only asking this because there are many model cars that span more than one year with the same engine, and those cars all have the same hp. The 67 and 68 Camaro 350 295 combo were both factored to 286 at the same time. Wouldn't that be the same thing? The 83 and 84 Mustang 302 175 combo were also both raised to 205 at the same time also. I think you will find its more common than you think. __________________ Duane Hoven 1342 SS/GT Last edited by 1347; 01-03-2023 at 11:19 PM.

01-03-2023, 11:32 PM	#3
Chipper Chapman Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Belmont N.S. Canada Posts: 452 Likes: 211 Liked 142 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors So up until Jan 1/23 the 69 engines had only the 067 Casting intake (one year only) and 68 had the 948 casting. This went for both the 325 and 350 hp engines. They have always been factored differently due to that. If you look at the current advertised ratings for the 325hp combos (324 for 68 and 316 for 69) you’ll see that still there. For some reason NHRA decided to blanket the intakes on both combos effective Jan 1, and adjust both 350hp combos to the same, while they were different (68 was 340 and 69 335). they are claiming no performance difference in intakes, I have seen the difference. I can’t understand how they can supersede what the general submitted as the correct parts used, without anyone even asking for it. I’d have to say they are starting to blanket similar combos to weed out oddballs that create more work for them. Just another watering down of stock eliminator you could say __________________ Chris Chapman 1969 Chevelle NHRA F-G/SA 1090

01-03-2023, 11:43 PM	#4
killintime6968 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Whitecourt,Alberta,Canada Posts: 226 Likes: 3,818 Liked 41 Times in 24 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors I just looked and I see they did the same on 68 and 69 nova's with the intakes. But no change with the horsepower ratings. The 68 is still rated at 340hp and 69 at 335hp. I guess i will have too run as a 69 now with better rating. __________________ Bruce Cameron 68 Nova 396 E/S 68 Camaro SS/? ex Checkmate Modified

01-04-2023, 08:26 AM	#5
Dave Casey VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hampden, MA Posts: 1,151 Likes: 198 Liked 581 Times in 127 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Very well could be that someone requested the intake change, could've provided documentation that there was overlap with those casting numbers. I doubt that they went looking for this without something prompting them. __________________ Dave Casey 1330 STK

01-07-2023, 09:46 AM	#8
Terry Cain Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Georgetown, Indiana (close to Louisville, KY) Posts: 760 Likes: 492 Liked 224 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Well, Kinda wish they would lump all the intakes together for my combo. There's 3 intakes for the 68-69 427 Quadrajet Corvettes. 3919849, 3937793, and the 3947801. I realize we're racing for truck loads of money but each one of these aluminum intakes currently brings about $500-700 each (if ya can find) and they are all 50 plus years old. __________________ Terry Cain ???? STK tcain@twc.com Last edited by Terry Cain; 01-07-2023 at 11:05 AM.

01-09-2023, 03:07 PM	#9
Mike Volkman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 73 Likes: 32 Liked 491 Times in 46 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Can't speak to stock combos but can to SS. Several years back (10-15 years) NHRA started splitting the same engine combination up - AT THE RACERS REQUEST - to protect their combinations. We called it the Bob Dennis rule. Smart guy who had 57000 combinations of Olds engines. I get it we all spend lots of time and money to go the fastest. If the head gasket was .002 different, the cc or runner volume varied by couple cc, smaller vs larger carb it was now a different combination. Back then, we always picked the best engine combination with the parts given. There was (and probably still is) a 305 combination that has a head p/n listed among several others in the blueprint sheets, but is not in the approved head list with port volumes. Because of this bogus p/n it now make it a different combination even though there are no specs. I think there were 5 or 6 305 SS combos (trying to remember) as a result of this splitting of hairs. It resulted in never being able to push the other guy out as they just played a number/paper game with combo. Nothing new. At one time, again in SS, there were 4-318 combinations to pick from. Now there are many across SS because of the change. This rolling back on combos into base groupings started 2-3 years ago. The 67-69 350/300 was the 1st I knew of. They were NHRA rated anywhere from 313 to 332 with the same engine. They're back to 2 now with a rating of 313 for OEM head and 318 with aftermarket. And, NHRA did not hurt the higher factored combos - actually had the racer in mind -and based it off the OEM head, or lower HP rating. Good deal I thought. I for one applaud them for taking the initiative and think that since we are a performance based class, that we should all race each other and not hide. Last edited by Mike Volkman; 01-09-2023 at 05:35 PM.

01-09-2023, 04:24 PM	#10
TERRY HEMBREE Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Blue Ridge,Ga Posts: 16 Likes: 12 Liked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors I questioned Pat C last year why the 68 and 69 350/396 Camaros had different hp ratings because the 68 only had been reduced to 330. He said the reason was because of the intakes and if I wanted him to consider lowering the 69 to 330 then I had to send him both year intakes so he could scan them to see if they were equal. I had no interest in doing that so I left it at that. So now for some reason the Chevelles and the 68 Camaro are at 330 the 69 Camaro is still 340.