What Pro stock could and maybe should be. - Page 3

James L Miller · 11-19-2011, 12:48 PM

I had proposed something similar to NHRA several years ago as a Jr. Pro Stock, a new heads-up class for sportsman racers. Challengers, Moostangs and Carmaroes, 358, EFI, 90mm single throttle body, NO TUBE CHASSIS cars, must start with a real body. Bodies-in-white are available for all three now. Heads-up would appeal to more fans. I think the move to the tube chassis was the beginning of moving from Pro STOCK to just old PRO and nothing stock. Maybe run them on a 10.5W tire? It seems like a lot of the new SS cars would be able to jump over in a hurry. I'm not in favor of the superchargers. I think that would just make them even faster and maybe force the tube chassis back in for safety purposes. Make them fit templates to keep them looking STOCK! My $.02!

Tod Lane · 11-19-2011, 08:05 PM

If it costs 3 Million to campaign a current P/S car if you reduce the costs to 1 Million the current teams could scrap 2 million in parts and still break even, plus you would add teams.

Or, put the current teams on notice, the rules change in 2013, use up you stuff and don't repurchase.

I grew up with Pro Stock from its inception, the current class holds no interest to me what so ever. These cars look nothing like "Stock".

Just the opinion of a cranky old man

Ed Wright · 11-19-2011, 08:39 PM

A lot of people love it like it is. Can you imagine any of the present Pro Stock racers being interested in going slower? It's hard for me to imagine anybody interested in normally aspirated engine development not being interested in Pro Stock.

I wouldn't hold my breath until it happens.

boster · 11-19-2011, 11:13 PM

I remember something like this ? was it called "Bo Stock" as refereed by some on this thread .Yea the fans loved it as did quite a few racers

Bo Kenney
Bo Stock

Todd Boyer · 11-19-2011, 11:49 PM

I remember when Pro Stock cars had to use the factory STEEL quarters and roof in their construction, I can't imagine that is the case now. I like the idea of a Super Stock style chassis with a 358" limit. I tend to think they'd need at least a 14"x33" tire to hook them safely - especially with a stick.

Todays Pro Stock is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever - there is absolutely NOTHING 'stock' about it !!!!

Ed Wright · 11-20-2011, 12:25 AM

If you hang around a Pro Stock pit area during a national event you would learn many, many do like them just like are. If you like Stockers, watch the Stockers. I don't think any of those guy, or Comp guys, have any interest at all in looking like Stockers. They have nobinterest in us and don't watch us either. More people watch them than us, or Comp.

Greg Hill · 11-20-2011, 11:11 AM

Ed, I think you're wrong on this. I think this along with comp are dying. It takes a real gear head to appreciate the sophistication and technology that go into making these cars run as fast as they do and there are too few of those people who can afford to race these cars and too few that enjoy watching. Even though the racing is very close in Pro Stock it's not exciting. The cars all look alike, they go down the track with very little drama and it's basically a boring race from a spectator's view.

One of the reasons I suggested a spec blower and a 10.5 tire is that you would never know what was going to happen. Oh one other thing, as far as going slower than they do now the new 10.5 record was set somewhere this weekend at 6.002 at 233mph. If something isn't done to infuse this class with some excitement it will be gone in a few years.

cutta · 11-20-2011, 01:34 PM

This thread reminds me of a thread on Outlaw 10.5. Its seems that some of you are getting all caught up in the name Stock being in the class name just as some get caught up in Outlaw of 10.5. They seem to think that outlaw can only mean no rules when definitions can be manipulated to anyone's interpretation. Just because Stock is in the class, doesn't mean that each car has to be the purest of stock as an OEM car fresh out of the factory. If it makes you feel better, call it Pro Car. Also, you guys have no eyes at all if you can't clearly tell the difference between the three cars being run. The GXP's look nothing like the Avengers or the Mustangs. Pro Mods(Camaro Mod) are more copycats than Pro Stock.

In terms of this thread and my opinion on where I believe Pro Stock should be.
I believe they should keep some spec wheelbase, 2500 or 2600lbf minimum weight, the same 500ci engines, clutch, front clip must have all factory equipment(grills, lights, openings e.t.c) and be within 1 inch of stock body dimensions, rest of body must remain within 1inch of stock dimensions. At the beginning of each racing season, each body will be tested in the windtunnel to determine the aerodynamic drag at max speed. Weight penalties will be assessed to ensure each body style can perform equally with another at speed. This will ensure no performance advantage for any body style since we know the OEM manufacturers didn't build the car for performance on the track. This would be a much more realistic transition and wouldn't slow them down as much. No need to put fuel injection on here yet because its probably on its way.

chris ok · 11-20-2011, 01:45 PM

I like the current drive trains, sound mean, rpms to the skay and fast.
But makeem use Mustangs, oh they are already. Camaros and challengers. Like they did before my time. Limit hood scoop height. thats it. leave the rest alone. Then you could enjoy, Stock, Super Stock, and Pro Stock, all in one great show.

blkjack · 11-20-2011, 03:12 PM

The bottom line is......it doesn't matter what we or the fans think. It will be what the Pro Stock racers association think. They may go as far as EFI of some spec for 2013, but other than that .....forget about it!

11-19-2011, 12:48 PM	#21
James L Miller Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 495 Likes: 6 Liked 24 Times in 15 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. I had proposed something similar to NHRA several years ago as a Jr. Pro Stock, a new heads-up class for sportsman racers. Challengers, Moostangs and Carmaroes, 358, EFI, 90mm single throttle body, NO TUBE CHASSIS cars, must start with a real body. Bodies-in-white are available for all three now. Heads-up would appeal to more fans. I think the move to the tube chassis was the beginning of moving from Pro STOCK to just old PRO and nothing stock. Maybe run them on a 10.5W tire? It seems like a lot of the new SS cars would be able to jump over in a hurry. I'm not in favor of the superchargers. I think that would just make them even faster and maybe force the tube chassis back in for safety purposes. Make them fit templates to keep them looking STOCK! My $.02! __________________ Mopar 2 Ya!

11-19-2011, 08:05 PM	#22
Tod Lane Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 152 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. If it costs 3 Million to campaign a current P/S car if you reduce the costs to 1 Million the current teams could scrap 2 million in parts and still break even, plus you would add teams. Or, put the current teams on notice, the rules change in 2013, use up you stuff and don't repurchase. I grew up with Pro Stock from its inception, the current class holds no interest to me what so ever. These cars look nothing like "Stock". Just the opinion of a cranky old man __________________ Tod Lane Swartz & Lane 66 Nova Swartz & Lane 79 H/CM Trans Am

11-19-2011, 08:39 PM	#23
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 389 Times in 168 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. A lot of people love it like it is. Can you imagine any of the present Pro Stock racers being interested in going slower? It's hard for me to imagine anybody interested in normally aspirated engine development not being interested in Pro Stock. I wouldn't hold my breath until it happens. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 11-19-2011 at 09:14 PM.

11-19-2011, 11:13 PM	#24
boster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: usa Posts: 958 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. I remember something like this ? was it called "Bo Stock" as refereed by some on this thread .Yea the fans loved it as did quite a few racers Bo Kenney Bo Stock

11-19-2011, 11:49 PM	#25
Todd Boyer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Saint John NB Canada Posts: 560 Likes: 27 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. I remember when Pro Stock cars had to use the factory STEEL quarters and roof in their construction, I can't imagine that is the case now. I like the idea of a Super Stock style chassis with a 358" limit. I tend to think they'd need at least a 14"x33" tire to hook them safely - especially with a stick. Todays Pro Stock is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever - there is absolutely NOTHING 'stock' about it !!!! Last edited by Todd Boyer; 11-19-2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: added material

11-20-2011, 12:25 AM	#26
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 389 Times in 168 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. If you hang around a Pro Stock pit area during a national event you would learn many, many do like them just like are. If you like Stockers, watch the Stockers. I don't think any of those guy, or Comp guys, have any interest at all in looking like Stockers. They have nobinterest in us and don't watch us either. More people watch them than us, or Comp. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 11-20-2011 at 12:28 AM.

11-20-2011, 11:11 AM	#27
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,994 Likes: 63 Liked 270 Times in 68 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. Ed, I think you're wrong on this. I think this along with comp are dying. It takes a real gear head to appreciate the sophistication and technology that go into making these cars run as fast as they do and there are too few of those people who can afford to race these cars and too few that enjoy watching. Even though the racing is very close in Pro Stock it's not exciting. The cars all look alike, they go down the track with very little drama and it's basically a boring race from a spectator's view. One of the reasons I suggested a spec blower and a 10.5 tire is that you would never know what was going to happen. Oh one other thing, as far as going slower than they do now the new 10.5 record was set somewhere this weekend at 6.002 at 233mph. If something isn't done to infuse this class with some excitement it will be gone in a few years. __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

11-20-2011, 01:34 PM	#28
cutta Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 346 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. This thread reminds me of a thread on Outlaw 10.5. Its seems that some of you are getting all caught up in the name Stock being in the class name just as some get caught up in Outlaw of 10.5. They seem to think that outlaw can only mean no rules when definitions can be manipulated to anyone's interpretation. Just because Stock is in the class, doesn't mean that each car has to be the purest of stock as an OEM car fresh out of the factory. If it makes you feel better, call it Pro Car. Also, you guys have no eyes at all if you can't clearly tell the difference between the three cars being run. The GXP's look nothing like the Avengers or the Mustangs. Pro Mods(Camaro Mod) are more copycats than Pro Stock. In terms of this thread and my opinion on where I believe Pro Stock should be. I believe they should keep some spec wheelbase, 2500 or 2600lbf minimum weight, the same 500ci engines, clutch, front clip must have all factory equipment(grills, lights, openings e.t.c) and be within 1 inch of stock body dimensions, rest of body must remain within 1inch of stock dimensions. At the beginning of each racing season, each body will be tested in the windtunnel to determine the aerodynamic drag at max speed. Weight penalties will be assessed to ensure each body style can perform equally with another at speed. This will ensure no performance advantage for any body style since we know the OEM manufacturers didn't build the car for performance on the track. This would be a much more realistic transition and wouldn't slow them down as much. No need to put fuel injection on here yet because its probably on its way. __________________ Adriel Paradise, Paradise Racing Team Driver/Crew Chief(at least my dad claims me to be) B.S. Mechanical Engineering, University of Arkansas

11-20-2011, 01:45 PM	#29
chris ok Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Island, New york Posts: 585 Likes: 121 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. I like the current drive trains, sound mean, rpms to the skay and fast. But makeem use Mustangs, oh they are already. Camaros and challengers. Like they did before my time. Limit hood scoop height. thats it. leave the rest alone. Then you could enjoy, Stock, Super Stock, and Pro Stock, all in one great show.

11-20-2011, 03:12 PM	#30
blkjack Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Belle Vernon, PA Posts: 281 Likes: 25 Liked 51 Times in 16 Posts	Re: What Pro stock could and maybe should be. The bottom line is......it doesn't matter what we or the fans think. It will be what the Pro Stock racers association think. They may go as far as EFI of some spec for 2013, but other than that .....forget about it!