HOME FORUM RULES CONTACT
     
   
   

Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > .90 Heads Up Class Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2021, 07:48 AM   #1
John DiBartolomeo
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Beaver Springs, PA
Posts: 494
Likes: 1
Liked 1,283 Times in 159 Posts
Default The Future Of The .90 Classes

THE FUTURE

After last week’s Blog (https://drc1254.wixsite.com/website/blog/), I am so overwhelmed with the support I received from so many. I can’t thank everyone enough.

One note however I did receive brought this to light. Jerry Duke, who saw his first drag race in 1963 has been involved in many facets of the sport since then. He asked, “I am interested in your opinion as to the future of .90 racing.”

Having been involved since the very early days of that class, I can say that a lot of things have changed since then. A throttle stop in those early days amounted to not much more than a bolt under the gas pedal to limit throttle opening and slow the car down to the class index. The problem with that is it somewhat limited horsepower which made it tougher to get a good reaction time.

In those early days, reaction time was measured from the time the last amber lit until your car broke the stage beam, as opposed to today where the reaction timer starts when the green light shines. Today a perfect .000 reaction time indicates the car broke the stage beam at the same exact time as the green light. Back then, a perfect reaction time was .400, based off a four-tenths pro tree. With the type of equipment then, a .420 reaction time was considered great. We were having to do all sorts of things in order to arrive at that number. With the Powerglide transmissions used back then, I clearly remember having cut apart numerous valve bodies to search for ways to get the trans brake to release quicker.

With Deep Staging not allowed, we’d also attempt to “bump in” a little after being staged. This meant it was sometimes a race just to get into the stage beam first to give you a little extra time to “bump in.” Eventually faster fluid-release valve bodies and better transmission torque converters came to pass, but it still was a different time.

The throttle controls we have today where it appears the car shuts off and then picks up speed hadn’t yet come into existence. This meant that for the most part, races from the starting line to the finish line were side-by-side affairs. I became pretty adept at the use of weight to not only slow the car down but also adjust the suspension. At one time, I also played with an ignition retard after the car shifted into high gear. The amount of retard used allowed me to get closer to the index and then I used minimal amounts of weight to fine tune it. In addition, I used an override in high gear to maybe make up for a late light or force an opponent to break out. Today, it’s as simple as rolling in or out various numbers on the throttle control timer.

It’s apparent today that almost everyone can cut a good reaction time along with their car repeating an elapsed time over and over again. Is it easy? No. There are still dozens of variables which can throw a monkey wrench into the fray. But it’s easier today than it was in the beginning of the class to build a winner, much like in any class of drag racing. The one thing that is harder is the ability to win on a consistent basis and that’s based on the fact that almost everyone has the capability to turn on a win light.

In those earlier days, if there were 100 cars in the staging lanes for a class, you could probably pick out 25 or so who probably had the best chance to win. Now with 100 cars, that number has to be increased to at least 99 of them with the chance of winning. The competition level has gotten that great.

So what’s the future of the .90 classes? I honestly don’t know other several years ago hearing an NHRA official explain to me that any of the .90 classes were the most populated of any of the NHRA sportsman classes. They may not be popular with the fans, but what sportsman class is? The sportsman classes are participant-driven, not spectator-driven. Will it continue? Nobody has that Crystal Ball and who’s to say what happens in the future. A little over one year ago, no one could have predicted the type year we had in 2020. So who can predict the future of the .90 classes? My thought is that as long as they continue to be populated, they’ll remain. And maybe the truth is that the NHRA has bigger things to concern themselves with than the future of a class which is still popular. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. What’s your thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	JD2_0162-2.jpg
Views:	226
Size:	135.3 KB
ID:	57093  
__________________
John DiBartolomeo
DRC Race Products
DragRacingActionOnline.com
John DiBartolomeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2021, 11:07 AM   #2
Tom Goldman
VIP Member
 
Tom Goldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Allentown,PA
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 770
Liked 696 Times in 201 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

The "problem " with Super class racing is that when conceived Horse Power to run 9.90 or 8.90 was not easy to build or cheap.
It was a challenge that many of us embraced and rose to.
With the advent of modern cylinder heads ,cranks and blocks anyone can build a big or small block engine capable of HorsePower that Pro Stockers have !
NHRA failed to adapt the classes to the increased power at racers disposal. ....While other Sportsman classes, Comp ,Super Stock, and Stock experienced similar explosions in Horse Power ,their Class Indexes dropped accordingly while the Super Classes were left alone .
The time to lower the .90 indexes is LONG over due . ....There is no reason that all indexes could not be lowered at least one full second if not more . personally I would love to see them at 7.90 ,8.50 and 9.90 respectively
__________________
Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK
Tom Goldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked
Old 03-31-2021, 01:23 PM   #3
63corvette
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canyon, Tx
Posts: 534
Likes: 117
Liked 279 Times in 87 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Goldman View Post
The "problem " with Super class racing is that when conceived Horse Power to run 9.90 or 8.90 was not easy to build or cheap.
It was a challenge that many of us embraced and rose to.
With the advent of modern cylinder heads ,cranks and blocks anyone can build a big or small block engine capable of HorsePower that Pro Stockers have !
NHRA failed to adapt the classes to the increased power at racers disposal. ....While other Sportsman classes, Comp ,Super Stock, and Stock experienced similar explosions in Horse Power ,their Class Indexes dropped accordingly while the Super Classes were left alone .
The time to lower the .90 indexes is LONG over due . ....There is no reason that all indexes could not be lowered at least one full second if not more . personally I would love to see them at 7.90 ,8.50 and 9.90 respectively
Tom, I agree with most of your thoughts except the lowering of the indexes.
I think that might hurt the participation of especially SST as there are several in that class that could not make the 9.90 et without spending more money to reach that et.
They might choose to just go bracket racing instead.
The lowering of the indexes was voted on at least 2 times in the Divisions I participate in over the past years and the vote was to keep it as is. My vote was I did not have a preference and I would go with whatever the majority decided.
I have competed in all 3 of the 90 categories over the years and I observed some in each class with not enough skill to run the class they were in to do so safely. That is one of my concerns when lowering the indexes also. I fear drastically lowering the indexes would cause more high speed accidents.
The last few years I helped with a TS car and I can tell you from my observations from the starting line in that class there are many in over their head in skills to be running that class.
Money can make you fast however, that does not make you capable of controlling that kind of horsepower. That is my concern with lowering the indexes drastically.
Maybe I am just getting old and my concerns may not be real.

My top concern with the 90 classes is the use of electronic controls repeating a programmed run. I have suspicions that is happening and is not being policed by anyone. There was another thread on Class Racer regarding that subject and how it could be done and available it was on the market. If it is available it will be used by some. That is just human nature.
With all that is going on with motor sports I just hope Drag Racing can survive.
Drag Racing has been my addiction since I attended my first NHRA race at Amarillo Dragway in the spring of 1963 or maybe 1964 which was the Winternationals with all the legends of that era. Top fuel cars on open trailers or ramp trucks. The good ole days.
Just My 2 Cents
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX. I now compete in SG and am licensed in both SG and SC
63corvette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2021, 02:21 PM   #4
ausby
Junior Member
 
ausby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: springfield tn
Posts: 47
Likes: 3
Liked 31 Times in 16 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

i hope it stays around a while. im new to the .90 stuff and like it alot better than bracket racing.
__________________
Ausby Brewington
A231 S/G
ausby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 09:37 PM   #5
Joe Shiver T/S SST
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

I went from Top Sportsman back to Super Street and love it hope it stays around and car counts are great I say leave well enough alone. I also think that super street gives the ability for some drivers to drag race who maybe can't pass the physical to go super fast but still want to compete and have fun. So no I wouldn't want to see an index change.
Joe Shiver T/S SST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2021, 03:29 PM   #6
Maverick
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

I think it would really mess up the class to lower the indexes. It ok if you have a mega inch motor in a roadster, and can 170. You want to change the index, then do it and I will retire for sure. The hi mph cars have the advantage most of the time, but there are a few racers that run the number at 100 mph. The problem with people wanting to change the index is they can't run without it. 9.90 hi mph car would run low 8's. They allowed the delay, throttle control boxes, which are just computers manipulating the throttle control, and release of the car. Too much politics in the class. Steve Williams. S/G 351N 1994 Ford with no throttle control, or hi moh

Last edited by Maverick; 04-09-2021 at 03:35 PM.
Maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2021, 03:32 PM   #7
Maverick
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

I think it would really mess up the class to lower the indexes. It ok if you have a mega inch motor in a roadster, and can 170. You want to change the index, then do it and I will retire for sure. The hi mph cars have the advantage most of the time, but there are a few racers that run the number at 100 mph. The problem with people wanting to change the index is they can't run without it. 9.90 hi mph car would run low 8's. They allowed the delay, throttle control boxes, which are just computers manipulating the throttle control, and release of the car. Too much politics in the class. Steve Williams. S/G 351N 1994 Ford with no throttle control, or hi mph. You want to lower the index, jump move up a class. You run super gas, run super comp, problem solved
Maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2021, 09:02 PM   #8
BKSG1198
VIP Member
 
BKSG1198's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in Vineland, NJ
Posts: 2,457
Likes: 81
Liked 971 Times in 296 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

You could also do what they did out on the West Coast a few years back and did a 7.90 class with a mix of dragster and roadsters. Keep the other classes the same with the indexes for those who don't have deep pockets and create a 7.90 class for those who want to go fast. I don't remember the results of the event but, I think it was held at Sonoma.
BKSG1198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2021, 10:44 PM   #9
Regan Wilson
Member
 
Regan Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 245
Likes: 141
Liked 125 Times in 65 Posts
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

We all voted years ago on the subject of lowering the Indexes. The vote was not to change anything. I can't recall what year it was.
Regan Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 09:20 AM   #10
Jason Oldfield
Senior Member
 
Jason Oldfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 619
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Jason Oldfield Send a message via MSN to Jason Oldfield Send a message via Yahoo to Jason Oldfield
Default Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKSG1198 View Post
You could also do what they did out on the West Coast a few years back and did a 7.90 class with a mix of dragster and roadsters. Keep the other classes the same with the indexes for those who don't have deep pockets and create a 7.90 class for those who want to go fast. I don't remember the results of the event but, I think it was held at Sonoma.
That's sorta what I was going to suggest, though I might change that up slightly. Just thinking out loud here...

You can't really just move all the indexes up 1 second because as somebody mentioned you would force out a lot of the S/St racers (that jump in index requires a lot of additional safety equipment, including chassis certification (not that they shouldn't have it anyway, but that's another topic altogether).

In my opinion, NHRA hurt S/St when the made it so that you could race more than one category if you raced S/St. A lot of really good, experienced S/G guys moved down the instant they were able to do that.
So, I would move S/C up to 7.90, S/G up to 8.90, S/St up to 9.90, and make a new 10.90 class with a few rules modifications.

For the new 9.90 S/St I would reduce the minimum weight requirement to 2100 lbs., but otherwise leave the class exactly as is.

For the new 10.90 class, I would use the current S/St minimum weight of 2,800 lbs., and go back to 1 entry only. I'm thinking stock bodied vehicles only (no fiberglass replicas). Maybe no chassis cars (back half cars only). I would also seriously consider electronics restrictions. No programmable ignition boxes? No data recorders / electronic dashes? Manually shifted cars only?

Again, just thinking out loud here and trying to think about the typical low 11 second bracket racer that is thinking that they'd like to dip their toe in the water and give .90 racing a try. You're not going to do that if you immediately believe that you'd have to go spend $5,000 in miscellaneous electronics to make your car competitive.

I'm sure all of you could come up with some good suggestions. I want to see these classes survive, but I really don't believe they will if they continue running the way they are. For now, NHRA is OK with it because there are still plenty of competitors. But the average age competing in each class is continually rising, because it's just us same old competitors getting older. We need to have a real entry-level class that your typical young, enthusiastic drag racing competitor can get into without:

1. Breaking the bank
2. Feeling like they're bringing a knife to a gunfight
3. Being embarrassed about the state of their racing operation as compared to the typical competitor in the class

Regardless, thanks for the initial, thought provoking post, John. It's good to see some familiar "faces" again...
__________________
Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/St 1838
Jason Oldfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.