Ford vs Chevy Build-up - Page 41

HandOverFist · 05-01-2015, 11:26 AM

I'll have to buy a IAT sensor as I can't seem to locate the original. If the factory O2 sensors can in fact be deleted I'm all for that. If a one wire alternator will cure the no charge problem I'll gladly order one to get away from that aggravation quickly.

SSGT Mustang · 05-01-2015, 12:17 PM

Don't delete the O2's. You'd be in open loop (no feedback to the computer). You don't need that right now. You probably don't need that ever, but it's option later on when you become more familiar with tuning efi.

It's running smoother now because you have closed loop when you installed both O2's.

Tony Corley · 05-01-2015, 02:45 PM

I didn't realized you had left the IAT off also, lol. Remember, unlike a carb, an efi system is only as good as the info it receives. Make certain all of the sensors are not only hooked up, but in good operating order. If you need to replace any sensors, buy Motorcraft.
As far as eliminating the o2's, yes it can be done, but at this stage of your learning curve it will be much easier to tune with them in, and they will not hurt you in any way as far as making power with them being there.
They will make the whole tuning process much more forgiving.

HandOverFist · 05-01-2015, 04:05 PM

Bought a new IAT sensor and put it in. Also bought a new MAP sensor, but I don't see any evidence anything has changed. Car still starts and idles tho, Scheduled Wednesday morning to get the front-end lined up. I have some new screenshots of the controller while running that I will post when I get home this evening.

fordteacherguy · 05-01-2015, 08:56 PM

Rich,

Also make sure your injector ground is connected to the engine and your engine has a good ground strap to the firewall. EFI needs good grounds! The main computer ground should be clean and tight as well and should be on the driver side front inner fender below starter relay.

The ground for the injector harness usually goes on a upper bell housing bolt.

HandOverFist · 05-02-2015, 01:21 AM

Yes, I have all those grounds tight plus some Brian. Question for you efi users...what do you all use to determine if specific sensors are working properly at any given time? I have this controller screen to view some of them, but was wondering how others know what exactly individual sensors are reading in real time.

Some screenshots from initial firing this afternoon -

Putting the car on blocks in the morning to set pinion angle and lock everything down.

SSGT Mustang · 05-02-2015, 09:05 AM

I'll see if I can check my car so you can use it as a reference.

fordteacherguy · 05-02-2015, 09:38 AM

Rich,
These older Ford EFI systems didn't give live data so as Ford Tech we installed a "break out box) interface between the EEC processor and harness that had exposed pins where we could measure the pin voltages with a digital volt meter. You can do similar sensor checks with a thin paperclip and your voltmeter by slipping the clip along side the sensor wire in the sensors backshell until it hits the connector (back probing) and directly measure voltage coming from the sensor wire to ground and comparing to spec. Most 3 wire sensors have a wire that is 5V reference (orange) Sensor Ground (Black) and sensor output (green or some other color). I just probe and can identify signal wire (usually the one in the middle) that has the voltage between o and 5. Two wire sensors (IAT and ECT) jut tap into either ide and read voltage. Take readings with sensors hooked up.

Typical Values at idle and warm

TP around 1 volt
Baro 159 HZ +/-6 (Frequency, set meter on HZ)
ECT 1,3-..6 Warm
IAT 1.3 -.6 Warm
MAF 1V-? More with more air going through.

Make sure MAF wire is clean and doesn't have contaminants on it...maf is a major player with A/F.

Good luck!

fordteacherguy · 05-02-2015, 10:01 AM

Rich,

Looking at your photos, you don't have a vacuuum line hooked to baro do you? It looks like the same as a MAP sensor but baro's just read atmospheric pressure so the connection is open, no vacuum goes to that sensor.

Look like TP and IAT/ECT are working just curious of that Baro reading at -29.HG

FireSale · 05-02-2015, 11:46 AM

If that's barometric pressure as in weather, 29 hg is about right for Rich's area. Atlanta is 30 right now. The - could be a dash or a wiring glitch generating a negative value. EFI is a black box to me, so this is just a guess.

Dale

05-01-2015, 11:26 AM	#401
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I'll have to buy a IAT sensor as I can't seem to locate the original. If the factory O2 sensors can in fact be deleted I'm all for that. If a one wire alternator will cure the no charge problem I'll gladly order one to get away from that aggravation quickly. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

05-01-2015, 12:17 PM	#402
SSGT Mustang Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jersey Posts: 359 Likes: 35 Liked 203 Times in 53 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Don't delete the O2's. You'd be in open loop (no feedback to the computer). You don't need that right now. You probably don't need that ever, but it's option later on when you become more familiar with tuning efi. It's running smoother now because you have closed loop when you installed both O2's.

05-01-2015, 02:45 PM	#403
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 230 Likes: 15 Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I didn't realized you had left the IAT off also, lol. Remember, unlike a carb, an efi system is only as good as the info it receives. Make certain all of the sensors are not only hooked up, but in good operating order. If you need to replace any sensors, buy Motorcraft. As far as eliminating the o2's, yes it can be done, but at this stage of your learning curve it will be much easier to tune with them in, and they will not hurt you in any way as far as making power with them being there. They will make the whole tuning process much more forgiving.

05-01-2015, 04:05 PM	#404
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Bought a new IAT sensor and put it in. Also bought a new MAP sensor, but I don't see any evidence anything has changed. Car still starts and idles tho, Scheduled Wednesday morning to get the front-end lined up. I have some new screenshots of the controller while running that I will post when I get home this evening. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

05-01-2015, 08:56 PM	#405
fordteacherguy Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Federal Way, WA Posts: 233 Likes: 24 Liked 147 Times in 47 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Rich, Also make sure your injector ground is connected to the engine and your engine has a good ground strap to the firewall. EFI needs good grounds! The main computer ground should be clean and tight as well and should be on the driver side front inner fender below starter relay. The ground for the injector harness usually goes on a upper bell housing bolt. __________________ Brian Thompson NHRA Stock / Super Stock Class P/SA 6665 SS/MA 6665

05-02-2015, 01:21 AM	#406
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Yes, I have all those grounds tight plus some Brian. Question for you efi users...what do you all use to determine if specific sensors are working properly at any given time? I have this controller screen to view some of them, but was wondering how others know what exactly individual sensors are reading in real time. Some screenshots from initial firing this afternoon - Putting the car on blocks in the morning to set pinion angle and lock everything down. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321 Last edited by HandOverFist; 05-02-2015 at 01:24 AM.

05-02-2015, 09:05 AM	#407
SSGT Mustang Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jersey Posts: 359 Likes: 35 Liked 203 Times in 53 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I'll see if I can check my car so you can use it as a reference. Last edited by SSGT Mustang; 05-02-2015 at 09:40 AM.

05-02-2015, 09:38 AM	#408
fordteacherguy Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Federal Way, WA Posts: 233 Likes: 24 Liked 147 Times in 47 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Rich, These older Ford EFI systems didn't give live data so as Ford Tech we installed a "break out box) interface between the EEC processor and harness that had exposed pins where we could measure the pin voltages with a digital volt meter. You can do similar sensor checks with a thin paperclip and your voltmeter by slipping the clip along side the sensor wire in the sensors backshell until it hits the connector (back probing) and directly measure voltage coming from the sensor wire to ground and comparing to spec. Most 3 wire sensors have a wire that is 5V reference (orange) Sensor Ground (Black) and sensor output (green or some other color). I just probe and can identify signal wire (usually the one in the middle) that has the voltage between o and 5. Two wire sensors (IAT and ECT) jut tap into either ide and read voltage. Take readings with sensors hooked up. Typical Values at idle and warm TP around 1 volt Baro 159 HZ +/-6 (Frequency, set meter on HZ) ECT 1,3-..6 Warm IAT 1.3 -.6 Warm MAF 1V-? More with more air going through. Make sure MAF wire is clean and doesn't have contaminants on it...maf is a major player with A/F. Good luck! __________________ Brian Thompson NHRA Stock / Super Stock Class P/SA 6665 SS/MA 6665

05-02-2015, 10:01 AM	#409
fordteacherguy Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Federal Way, WA Posts: 233 Likes: 24 Liked 147 Times in 47 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Rich, Looking at your photos, you don't have a vacuuum line hooked to baro do you? It looks like the same as a MAP sensor but baro's just read atmospheric pressure so the connection is open, no vacuum goes to that sensor. Look like TP and IAT/ECT are working just curious of that Baro reading at -29.HG __________________ Brian Thompson NHRA Stock / Super Stock Class P/SA 6665 SS/MA 6665

05-02-2015, 11:46 AM	#410
FireSale VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Lakewood Washington Posts: 1,407 Likes: 29 Liked 236 Times in 127 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up If that's barometric pressure as in weather, 29 hg is about right for Rich's area. Atlanta is 30 right now. The - could be a dash or a wiring glitch generating a negative value. EFI is a black box to me, so this is just a guess. Dale __________________ Dale Shearon 68 Mustang 6394