Ford vs Chevy Build-up - Page 53

HandOverFist · 06-07-2015, 10:56 PM

Beech Bend Sat./Sun. Combo 6, 7 June 2015 -

Thinking I was on the right track with a tune for the Mustang finally I took the horse to Bowling Green this weekend. Found I could not have been further from the mark even if I had just set fire to the car. It would not even approach the index despite all my efforts.

It has become clear I have no clue what needs to be done with this efi so I intend to take it to a local chassis dyno and let some experienced folks get it at least in the ballpark.

Its a shame I was unable to get it going my way because I'm really comfortable in the car and I can kill the tree with it. I was paired with Kenny Shindller Saturday night for first round and I just flatly advised him what was going on...of course he won the round and went on to runner-up that night.

Sunday morning I tried some drastic changes for effect, but no better. Went to find who I was paired with for first round on the ladder and dadgummit it was Kenny again lol! We had a good laugh in the staging lanes about it and I told him I was probably his lucky charm for the weekend and it would be another repeat of last night's race. Before we loaded into our cars I told him not to redlight because I was ready to go home, but I intended to be either red or drill the tree on him. All other problems aside I did my job this weekend...just didnt have much to work with. My best and worst lights of the weekend, both first round races...

Dave Noll · 06-08-2015, 11:04 PM

Don't feel too bad, with that 13.7 your closer to the "N" index than I am but so far I got a MPH on ya.

I like the technical side of all this and watching the changes. Curious, did you happen to see your AFR going down track ?

HandOverFist · 06-09-2015, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Noll

Don't feel too bad, with that 13.7 your closer to the "N" index than I am but so far I got a MPH on ya.

I like the technical side of all this and watching the changes. Curious, did you happen to see your AFR going down track ?

That's another pisser...for the life of me I can't remember to look down at the gauge before crossing the stripe. I really need to hook the wide band up to the recorder. The last pass of the weekend I went the other direction on fuel (richer) and it responded favorably. I'm not completely sure the O2 sensor is reading correctly installed in the collector. I'm betting the chassis dyno will use a wand stuck further up into a primary tube.

Here it was just two weeks ago...the only changes were to add 120 pounds of ballast and my futile efforts at tuning.

Tony Corley · 06-09-2015, 05:55 PM

Usually on the dyno, the wideband is placed in the end of the exhaust. I am curious to see where you end up. There are so many variables, at least by having someone that is more familiar with these cars tune it that should rule that out of the equation as being an issue. (Not implying that you can't tune, only that this is an unfamiliar platform for you.) You have a good combination, just have to eliminate things until you figure out what is causing it not to run.

HandOverFist · 06-09-2015, 06:27 PM

It's pretty obvious Tony when I had it going 13.30s two weeks ago and now it runs 14's.

Delk Performance quoted/guesstimated $500 - $1000 to get it tuned...rolling that over in my head atm.

7423 · 06-09-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

It's pretty obvious Tony when I had it going 13.30s two weeks ago and now it runs 14's.

Delk Performance quoted/guesstimated $500 - $1000 to get it tuned...rolling that over in my head atm.

You could buy a big bunch of test n tune time for that kind of money. The best tool you own is your wideband AFR gauge. Save your money, go back to track, get that beast in hi gear and stare at the gauge for the next 900 feet. Change your fuel tables from 4000 rpm and up to create a 12.5ish air/fuel ratio at 1000ft and thru the stripe. Here is another secret, (don't tell anyone)..............................do all your testing and bracket racing on pump gas.....................9-1 CR does just fine on 91 octane unleaded.

My car started out with a mid 14 second maiden voyage pass. After installing a wideband gauge, tuning the fuel tables and locking the timing out at 32-34 degrees, it ran 13.20 on the old 13.45 index at O weight with a 135,000 mile long block.

You have a waaaaay nice car with good parts, be proud of it, she will fly. Lots of forums and sites about EFI tuning out there. Grab a beer and read up, you will quickly learn just how fast that car really is.

Dave Noll · 06-09-2015, 09:08 PM

I like what Charlie said. A local shop told me $125.00 an hour for dyno time & I almost went (story of my life) but my job situation changed. I just got a wide band (from the classifieds here on classracer) & the next trip to the track, 92 octane Conoco will be in the cell.

HandOverFist · 06-10-2015, 02:05 AM

I know you are right Charlie...it's just been so aggravating lately. I'll take it somewhere this Saturday and give it another go. Not sure how to lock the timing on this thing. The standalone mode should lock it at 25 degrees and any extra is added in the tables annotated by my input. Hate to fight the crowds, but it looks like Music City Raceway will be my best bet to get a maximum number of passes. If only there were an abandoned airstrip nearby...

Tony Corley · 06-10-2015, 08:24 AM

I don't know anything about them personally, but Delk does not have a very good reputation with the Mustang guys, so beware. If you are going to use someone to tune, research them first on the internet. The Mustang world will let you know pretty quickly how good(or bad) they are. Also make certain that they are familiar with the PMS you are using. I agree with what Charlie said to a certain extent, but you are starting from scratch with a new platform. The tune itself may not even be your issue. The dyno time and a good tuner will rule that part out of the equation for you, and you will also be able to see how well your convertor, etc, is working.

jcw31 · 06-10-2015, 08:33 AM

I know at one time you thought about trying the stock computer . Maybe try that or talk to Ed Wright on here he has alot of chassis dyno time plus he has alot of ecm experience.Before you spend a ton of $$$ speak to someone who can steer you in the right direction.

06-07-2015, 10:56 PM	#521
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Beech Bend Sat./Sun. Combo 6, 7 June 2015 - Thinking I was on the right track with a tune for the Mustang finally I took the horse to Bowling Green this weekend. Found I could not have been further from the mark even if I had just set fire to the car. It would not even approach the index despite all my efforts. It has become clear I have no clue what needs to be done with this efi so I intend to take it to a local chassis dyno and let some experienced folks get it at least in the ballpark. Its a shame I was unable to get it going my way because I'm really comfortable in the car and I can kill the tree with it. I was paired with Kenny Shindller Saturday night for first round and I just flatly advised him what was going on...of course he won the round and went on to runner-up that night. Sunday morning I tried some drastic changes for effect, but no better. Went to find who I was paired with for first round on the ladder and dadgummit it was Kenny again lol! We had a good laugh in the staging lanes about it and I told him I was probably his lucky charm for the weekend and it would be another repeat of last night's race. Before we loaded into our cars I told him not to redlight because I was ready to go home, but I intended to be either red or drill the tree on him. All other problems aside I did my job this weekend...just didnt have much to work with. My best and worst lights of the weekend, both first round races... __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

06-08-2015, 11:04 PM	#522
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 694 Likes: 2,260 Liked 219 Times in 105 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Don't feel too bad, with that 13.7 your closer to the "N" index than I am but so far I got a MPH on ya. I like the technical side of all this and watching the changes. Curious, did you happen to see your AFR going down track ? __________________ Dave Noll, E/FS ,L/SA 6526

06-09-2015, 05:55 PM	#524
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 230 Likes: 15 Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Usually on the dyno, the wideband is placed in the end of the exhaust. I am curious to see where you end up. There are so many variables, at least by having someone that is more familiar with these cars tune it that should rule that out of the equation as being an issue. (Not implying that you can't tune, only that this is an unfamiliar platform for you.) You have a good combination, just have to eliminate things until you figure out what is causing it not to run.

06-09-2015, 06:27 PM	#525
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up It's pretty obvious Tony when I had it going 13.30s two weeks ago and now it runs 14's. Delk Performance quoted/guesstimated $500 - $1000 to get it tuned...rolling that over in my head atm. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321 Last edited by HandOverFist; 06-09-2015 at 06:31 PM.

06-09-2015, 09:08 PM	#527
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 694 Likes: 2,260 Liked 219 Times in 105 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I like what Charlie said. A local shop told me $125.00 an hour for dyno time & I almost went (story of my life) but my job situation changed. I just got a wide band (from the classifieds here on classracer) & the next trip to the track, 92 octane Conoco will be in the cell. __________________ Dave Noll, E/FS ,L/SA 6526

06-10-2015, 02:05 AM	#528
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,655 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I know you are right Charlie...it's just been so aggravating lately. I'll take it somewhere this Saturday and give it another go. Not sure how to lock the timing on this thing. The standalone mode should lock it at 25 degrees and any extra is added in the tables annotated by my input. Hate to fight the crowds, but it looks like Music City Raceway will be my best bet to get a maximum number of passes. If only there were an abandoned airstrip nearby... __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

06-10-2015, 08:24 AM	#529
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 230 Likes: 15 Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I don't know anything about them personally, but Delk does not have a very good reputation with the Mustang guys, so beware. If you are going to use someone to tune, research them first on the internet. The Mustang world will let you know pretty quickly how good(or bad) they are. Also make certain that they are familiar with the PMS you are using. I agree with what Charlie said to a certain extent, but you are starting from scratch with a new platform. The tune itself may not even be your issue. The dyno time and a good tuner will rule that part out of the equation for you, and you will also be able to see how well your convertor, etc, is working.

06-10-2015, 08:33 AM	#530
jcw31 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 82 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up I know at one time you thought about trying the stock computer . Maybe try that or talk to Ed Wright on here he has alot of chassis dyno time plus he has alot of ecm experience.Before you spend a ton of $$$ speak to someone who can steer you in the right direction.