Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I know this forum may not be the right group of people to agree with this comment - but after a lot of thought and looking around the pits I would disagree that money is the reason people aren't running Comp. The pits are full of 75'+ race rigs that are all well north of $200k (RV + trailer), there are dozens of new Top Dragster and Top Sportsman cars being built every year (no cheaper to build than many Comp cars), and there is a HUGE growth in the small tire radial world. These fast growing classes that I just mentioned have no better payouts than Comp, have no qualifying money, or perks that unfortunately used to exist in Comp. But - they have some undefined draw to them that the Comp racers committee is trying to better understand to encourage these folks building new cars and growing their racing presence - to look at Comp as a class they may want to compete in. There are a LOT of people out in our sport with plenty of money to compete in whatever class they so choose, but there must be a reason that just isn't well enough understood yet as to why they aren't jumping into this great NHRA category.

Just my opinion,
Mike Mans

You are right on the money Mike!

My chassis builder buddy has built many winning Comp cars.
Nevertheless, lately all he has built are Top Sportsman cars.

Many of the Top Sportsman cars cost more to build than a Comp car, not taking into account the cost of the engines and drive train.

The last Top Sportsman car he built, I could have purchased two rear wheels for the cost of one rear wheel for the Top Sportsman car and the car also has Pro Stock style Strange rear axles, almost 3 times the cost of my Strange axles.

Yet, the car still requires to be towed to the starting line and the same maintenance as a Super Stock Modified or Comp car such as checking valve springs and valve lash every run.

Nevertheless, their car counts are higher.

During a discussion with my buddy, we came to the conclusion that the reason why the class may have more participation is due to the use of electronics.

When you have a computer or device that you can put your opponents dial and yours, and just release a button at the top of the tree to launch, doesn't make sense to me because it takes away the driver element out of the equation.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Looking good, Joe
Appears to be at the CFR World Headquarters .

I still think you could use an infusion of new classes and racers there.
How about any NSCA classes that might cross over? I don't know what they have, specifically.

How about this ? Stick shift Super / Stockers are always fun to watch. They are already clutchless.
Knock about three tenths off the indexes, and give them the option of running Comp.
They could change combos to stay competitive.
Of course ,the automatic guys would say.."what about us?"
Just trying to make this more spectator friendly.
Powerglide dragsters never did much for me.
(Your opinion may vary)

Just based on talks and discussions, many Comp racers would welcome the inclusion of the Factory Showdown FX/XX cars in the class such as the COPO's, Cobra Jet's and Drag Paks.

You are correct Mark, the pictures were taken at the CFR headquarters.
Sean could even comb his hair by looking at the shiny paint of the car...

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I know this forum may not be the right group of people to agree with this comment - but after a lot of thought and looking around the pits I would disagree that money is the reason people aren't running Comp. The pits are full of 75'+ race rigs that are all well north of $200k (RV + trailer), there are dozens of new Top Dragster and Top Sportsman cars being built every year (no cheaper to build than many Comp cars), and there is a HUGE growth in the small tire radial world. These fast growing classes that I just mentioned have no better payouts than Comp, have no qualifying money, or perks that unfortunately used to exist in Comp. But - they have some undefined draw to them that the Comp racers committee is trying to better understand to encourage these folks building new cars and growing their racing presence - to look at Comp as a class they may want to compete in. There are a LOT of people out in our sport with plenty of money to compete in whatever class they so choose, but there must be a reason that just isn't well enough understood yet as to why they aren't jumping into this great NHRA category.

Just my opinion,
Mike Mans

Comp requires a lot of work and maintenance. So people don't want to work that hard at the track. If I had the money I'd buy a D/SM car tomorrow. Comp is awesome.

[BPotts]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

You are right on the money Mike!

My chassis builder buddy has built many winning Comp cars.
Nevertheless, lately all he has built are Top Sportsman cars.

Many of the Top Sportsman cars cost more to build than a Comp car, not taking into account the cost of the engines and drive train.

The last Top Sportsman car he built, I could have purchased two rear wheels for the cost of one rear wheel for the Top Sportsman car and the car also has Pro Stock style Strange rear axles, almost 3 times the cost of my Strange axles.

Yet, the car still requires to be towed to the starting line and the same maintenance as a Super Stock Modified or Comp car such as checking valve springs and valve lash every run.

Nevertheless, their car counts are higher.

During a discussion with my buddy, we came to the conclusion that the reason why the class may have more participation is due to the use of electronics.

When you have a computer or device that you can put your opponents dial and yours, and just release a button at the top of the tree to launch, doesn't make sense to me because it takes away the driver element out of the equation.

I can agree with the cost to build. All race cars are expensive to build. BUT, the difference between Top Sportsman and Comp is you don't continually spend money hand over fist trying to keep up. It's a shoe polish race. Does anyone else see the trend? Stock, Super Stock, Top Sportsman, Top Dragster are healthy because you don't have to have the latest and greatest to keep up. You Just have to be a driver. David Rampy once said Comp is a rich mans class that is running out of rich men.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by BPotts

I can agree with the cost to build. All race cars are expensive to build. BUT, the difference between Top Sportsman and Comp is you don't continually spend money hand over fist trying to keep up. It's a shoe polish race. Does anyone else see the trend? Stock, Super Stock, Top Sportsman, Top Dragster are healthy because you don't have to have the latest and greatest to keep up. You Just have to be a driver. David Rampy once said Comp is a rich mans class that is running out of rich men.

Agree with some of your comments.

Like any other eliminator, it depends on the class you choose to race.
Comp Eliminator allows more creativity than other eliminators as regards to classes and engines to run.

Myself, I believe I am the only racer in the country building a Ford to run Super Modified class and its not a FWD car either, its a RWD car.

Can the Ford engine make the power to run against the Chevy powered cars in the class? I believe so and realize like everything in life, there is a learning curve. As an engineer, I enjoy challenge.

I have been told by many that I am crazy to run a Ford.
Nevertheless, a guy that I admire and respect very much as a racer, Mr. Jim Waldo, said to me, "Many years ago I was told I was wasting my time running the Ford Fairline. That made me work harder to prove others they were wrong".

The results of Jim Waldo's racing career with Ford products speak by themselves and I believe that if Jim had built a Super Stock or Modified Eliminator car, he would have been successful too.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ed Carpenter

Comp requires a lot of work and maintenance. So people don't want to work that hard at the track. If I had the money I'd buy a D/SM car tomorrow. Comp is awesome.

Common Ed, have Allen build you a bullet for D/SM!
It would go fast and you will get smack postings from people like Allen does!

[Mike Mans]

Ben has some very true points in recurring costs. I don't think the T/S and T/D guys HAVE to spend $20k on freshen up routines every 40-50 runs, but I do believe the guys with blowers or a lot of nitrous are certainly requiring plenty of maintenance attention.

Speaking just from an obvservation - Pro Mod and Top Sportsman have been displacing the Pro Stock and Comp participants. If you have the money to compete in the class of your choice - you're still likely going to look at a "bang for your buck" perspective. Financially able business people can run a Pro Mod today for a fraction (call it half) of a Pro Stock operation, and be a contender to win every week. 20 years ago engines like you see in T/S and T/D didn't exist or were not reliable to the point that they are today - so I think the evolution of cost per HP and reliability of these classes have taken mind-share and market-share from Comp and Pro Stock.

There are still many folks that want to compete in the Comp class, and hopefully they start to come back out and participate - but I would recommend forgetting the "good ole days" of Comp with qualifying money, big purses, etc... Those days are behind us for all of the classes, and I don't foresee them coming back. Our economy is booming, stock market is consistently reaching all time highs - and we don't see payout improvements happening? If it isn't happening now, it won't happen. It would really surprise me if the needle moves back in an upward direction for payouts in NHRA - that is not a big enough priority to the organization.

Mike Mans

[cutta]

I just think that the days of relying on more money coming from NHRA are over. I think that a sportsman or class org similar to Nhra Pro Mods "RPM" group is the best chance sportsman racers will have to increase payouts. Create a privatized conglomerate that can seek sponsorship and contingency outside of NHRA. I'm sure there is some difficulty in doing this but it seems like it would be better than expecting NHRA to find or provide the money to increase purses. With as many complaints about how poor NHRA is in this area, it would seem that something like this would be beneficial whether its done in a class specific manner or includes sportsman racing as a whole. You would then become your own governing body and can act and move on your own interest whether that's sponsorship, rules, or something else.

[Dwight Southerland]

There is a direct correlation between payouts and fan participation (not racer participation). A lot of the fan participation is due to the excitement generated (entertainment) and marketing. You want more payout?

[Bobby DiDomenico]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

Ben has some very true points in recurring costs. I don't think the T/S and T/D guys HAVE to spend $20k on freshen up routines every 40-50 runs, but I do believe the guys with blowers or a lot of nitrous are certainly requiring plenty of maintenance attention.

Speaking just from an obvservation - Pro Mod and Top Sportsman have been displacing the Pro Stock and Comp participants. If you have the money to compete in the class of your choice - you're still likely going to look at a "bang for your buck" perspective. Financially able business people can run a Pro Mod today for a fraction (call it half) of a Pro Stock operation, and be a contender to win every week. 20 years ago engines like you see in T/S and T/D didn't exist or were not reliable to the point that they are today - so I think the evolution of cost per HP and reliability of these classes have taken mind-share and market-share from Comp and Pro Stock.

There are still many folks that want to compete in the Comp class, and hopefully they start to come back out and participate - but I would recommend forgetting the "good ole days" of Comp with qualifying money, big purses, etc... Those days are behind us for all of the classes, and I don't foresee them coming back. Our economy is booming, stock market is consistently reaching all time highs - and we don't see payout improvements happening? If it isn't happening now, it won't happen. It would really surprise me if the needle moves back in an upward direction for payouts in NHRA - that is not a big enough priority to the organization.

Mike Mans

Mike,

Maybe if Wells Fargo clawed this back,
http://fortune.com/2016/09/12/wells-...rrie-tolstedt/
they could provide $1 million a year towards Stock, SuperStock, and Comp.
At 24 events plus the SportsNats divided by 3 is over $13,000 per class?
Oh to work for a company where numbers like this are a drop in the bucket.