Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says??

David 7215 · 07-27-2007, 12:51 PM

Hey all, I've always used a carb on race gas. However, it seems more racers are switching to alcohol in the Super classes. This isn't a tech question, I do understand the differences between the 2. I'm more interested if my perceptions about the shift to alcohol is correct. Thanks for any input.

Mike Hedger · 07-27-2007, 01:01 PM

I went to a Carb/Alcohol in My dragster when I built it last year (from gas in the door car I had before) I had a Pro Star 500 Magna Flow electric pump to start with but later put on a belt drive pump and since then it has been great for dialing and you can't get the motor hot even in Texas at 100 degree days. I love it but it has been a little more maintence and oil changes. But all in all I would do it again.

I talked with a local engine builder that runs the TCI/FAST FI and he has seen problems with the EFI on Alcohol with the fuel rails corroding and pluging the injectors then melting pistons. But the same guy loves the Rons mechanical FI on Alcohol.

Mike Pearson · 07-27-2007, 02:20 PM

Mike and David,

If you haven't had your motor apart since your change to alchohol you will be surprised on the amount of wear you will find in the top of the cylinder bores. You probably will have to bore the block and put new pistons in instead of just the standard freshen up of hone and rings. I have never seen this kind of wear in a gas motor. Good luck

Mike

Mike Hedger · 07-27-2007, 05:21 PM

I run top lube and have had the engine apart after every season (about 300 runs each) and have 4 years on the pistons and block two of them on alcohol. But I also change the oil every other race, gas ported the pistons and run a low tension ring that is made to run alcohol. I also have freshened about 4 alcohol motors and as long as they run top lube and don't flood them when they crank them to wash all of the oil off the cyl walls they are OK. I have had in the past seen the wear you are talking about but they did not run top lube in the fuel.

SC1448 · 07-30-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm sure using a gasoline primer system would help eliminate that concern too.
-Don

Rich Biebel · 08-08-2007, 01:48 PM

I ran alcohol injection for 3 years in my dragster and the same engine is now in a S/G car for the last 2 with very little wear issues. I used Klotz Uplon alcohol fuel lube. The same fuel pump is also in use on this engine and has never developed any problems either. The Klotz additive produced no residue problems like some other brands. Marvel Mystery Oil is also a good product to use if your engine is going to sit for sometime or it you want to dump into the engine after every race......MMO also is what I use during engine assembly on rings and cylinder walls and anything else I want a "light" oil on......Alcohol is defiantely my choice on a bracket or super class car. I preferred the Ron's Terminator setup.....

07-27-2007, 12:51 PM	#1
David 7215 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pleasanton CA USA Posts: 7 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? Hey all, I've always used a carb on race gas. However, it seems more racers are switching to alcohol in the Super classes. This isn't a tech question, I do understand the differences between the 2. I'm more interested if my perceptions about the shift to alcohol is correct. Thanks for any input.

07-27-2007, 01:01 PM	#2
Mike Hedger Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kemah TX Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? I went to a Carb/Alcohol in My dragster when I built it last year (from gas in the door car I had before) I had a Pro Star 500 Magna Flow electric pump to start with but later put on a belt drive pump and since then it has been great for dialing and you can't get the motor hot even in Texas at 100 degree days. I love it but it has been a little more maintence and oil changes. But all in all I would do it again. I talked with a local engine builder that runs the TCI/FAST FI and he has seen problems with the EFI on Alcohol with the fuel rails corroding and pluging the injectors then melting pistons. But the same guy loves the Rons mechanical FI on Alcohol. __________________ Mike Hedger S/C 4646 MPH Racing and Fabrication

07-27-2007, 02:20 PM	#3
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,323 Likes: 547 Liked 1,650 Times in 504 Posts	Re: Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? Mike and David, If you haven't had your motor apart since your change to alchohol you will be surprised on the amount of wear you will find in the top of the cylinder bores. You probably will have to bore the block and put new pistons in instead of just the standard freshen up of hone and rings. I have never seen this kind of wear in a gas motor. Good luck Mike __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS

07-27-2007, 05:21 PM	#4
Mike Hedger Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kemah TX Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? I run top lube and have had the engine apart after every season (about 300 runs each) and have 4 years on the pistons and block two of them on alcohol. But I also change the oil every other race, gas ported the pistons and run a low tension ring that is made to run alcohol. I also have freshened about 4 alcohol motors and as long as they run top lube and don't flood them when they crank them to wash all of the oil off the cyl walls they are OK. I have had in the past seen the wear you are talking about but they did not run top lube in the fuel. __________________ Mike Hedger S/C 4646 MPH Racing and Fabrication

07-30-2007, 02:05 PM	#5
SC1448 Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southampton, PA Posts: 226 Likes: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? I'm sure using a gasoline primer system would help eliminate that concern too. -Don

08-08-2007, 01:48 PM	#6
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,275 Likes: 25 Liked 510 Times in 200 Posts	Re: Gas or Alcohol, Carb or Injection??? Survey says?? I ran alcohol injection for 3 years in my dragster and the same engine is now in a S/G car for the last 2 with very little wear issues. I used Klotz Uplon alcohol fuel lube. The same fuel pump is also in use on this engine and has never developed any problems either. The Klotz additive produced no residue problems like some other brands. Marvel Mystery Oil is also a good product to use if your engine is going to sit for sometime or it you want to dump into the engine after every race......MMO also is what I use during engine assembly on rings and cylinder walls and anything else I want a "light" oil on......Alcohol is defiantely my choice on a bracket or super class car. I preferred the Ron's Terminator setup..... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Last edited by Rich Biebel; 08-09-2007 at 02:36 PM.