Re: Black Tuesday?
 

ED SED, "I'm sorry for the typo it's a real problem and someday I may learn to type maybe not but one thing is clear you will be a dumb ***** hillbilly SOB till you die ."

Bill responds, "Ed, as usual, it wasn't "a typo," but MANY typos, written while accusing ME of having an inferior education. Here's another one: (where is the period and capitalization when you begin the next sentence??? ("sorry for the typo it's a real problem and...").)
That doesn't even qualify as a "comma splice".... there's NO COMMA!!!

Did you look up "hubris"? Was your picture there????? LOL!!!

ED SED, "but one thing is clear you will be a dumb ***** hillbilly SOB till you die ."

If that's true, why is it that YOU'RE the one who talks (writes) like one????

Did your "superior education" not acquaint you with the semicolon? That sentence REALLY needs a semicolon after "one thing is clear"....

How did you get out of the seventh grade without knowing that??? Commas should be after "dumb ***," and "hillbilly," too. Oops; maybe you never GOT out of the 7th grade............

ED, SED, "If your were younger there might be a chance that you could pull your head out of your ***** and see what's going on but it seems like time has passed for you . Have a nice day". Needs a comma after "younger," too...

But, that is a typical response from you, ED. You think that if you are obnoxious enough with your character assassination, and the childish insults that you hurl as a last-ditch attempt to direct attention away from the facts, you come out looking like a winner.

Make that weiner.

You accused some of the leaders of our sport of being responsible for cheating, and now, think you can sneak away into the night, unscathed, because you failed to address the issue of standing behind what you said... you never said WHAT they did, nor WHO did it. Even though, I ASKED YOU POINT BLANK WHAT THEY DID AND WHO THEY WERE!

Your response was to kill the messenger; ignoring the question and attempting to change the subject.

You just sling mud.... irresponsibly.

Everybody knows that. You make it pretty obvious.

You need to apologize to those people if you want any credibility on this board.

That kind of behavior will get you nowhere, here.

Be a MAN and "own" your accusations. Anything less just shows how immature your thought process is.

Have a more Grammatically sophisticated day...... :)

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

Lowering indexes will do nothing but reduce car count. End of story.

As far as Stockers running Super Stock. How is it the same motor combo could possibly be less in S/S??? That's the issue not indexes.

Raise the trigger. Don't eliminate guys that want to be out there racing.

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

The OTHER "ED" (is this a chain?) SEZ: "Here we go again. Ed has a CLASS CAR. YOU are a bracket racer.You do not have a S/SS car.Any bull**** you post has no bearing on you,but it might for anyone here who runs a class car.
Go on the bracket racing section and dazzle them with your advanced education and
spelling prowess.


ED, you know... paranoia will destroy-ya.... :)

Well, thanks, anyway, for that (limiting my influence to "bull****," which I never post.)

You've proven that you're incapable of understanding a simple rule change like the worse red light rule (which you've demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt, that you simply don't have a CLUE about what it can do for you), a pretty good indication that you are not going to be too good at separating the truth from the B.S.

Did you and O'Brien go to school together??? He insults me over and over with low-brow criticism of MY education, then YOU accuse me of having "your advanced education and spelling prowess." Which one of you is 100-percent wrong???

Do you condone (look it up) his accusations, and refusing to validate anything he said by changing the subject (like someone else I know,) whenever he's asked exactly who he was talking about, and what they were alleged to be doing that was illegal?

No guts to stand behind his accusations. You think that's okay?

It wouldn't surprise me.

For the tenth time; try to understand this: This forum is for anyyone who signs up to post here.
There is ANOTHER FORUM for active racers, and the posts on that forum are limited to people who have a permanent number.

Go over there on that forum and whine about people posting things that " have no bearing on you,but it might for anyone here who runs a class car."

I WISH NHRA paid one iota of attention to me.... but you and I both know, they DON'T. Never have; never will.

Do YOU think that if I bought a class car and started racing it, I'd gain 70 I.Q. points, and suddenly be A-OK to post here??? LOL!

You are not a moderator; stop trying to act like one!

You just don't get it, do you??????? This forum was created for people like me.

Get used to it...

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

Toby and Jody: You are exactly right on every posting you have made on this particular thread! If there is a problem it is with some of the HP factors.... Not the index. Example: My 71 Demon 340 is 314HP in Stock and only 283HP in Superstock which is 31HP in a small block....That means several classes lower in Superstock No wonder it runs well under in Superstock! This is a factor problem not a index problem! Maybe every stock driver who runs SS should go to swapmeet and buy a cheap aftermarket intake and then toss it on prior to Tech.... would that make everyone happy? MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!! Irving Family Racing...3 Dumbass Welfare Hillbilly Stock Racers . See ya all at the finish stripe!!

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

Jody, you are exactly right! If under todays system I can run 3 tenths under my index and all indexes are lowered 3 tenths at some point, then at that point I am not able to race competively expecially at a bad air track. (won't be able to run the index but will have to dial the index).

Index lowering example simplified: If one racer can run 1.20 under with todays index system and another racer can run 1.00 under, IF the indexes are lowered by 3 tenths the 1.20 under becomes .90 under and the 1.00 under becomes .70 under. What is the difference? They are both seperated by 3 tenths. ......Ok here is the difference to me. If the 1.20/.90 under car is way underfactored and already 300+ pounds heavy or sandbagging and the 1.00/.70 car is somewhere close factor wise and running on the minimum weight all out it is still BS whether the indexes are reduced by 1 tenth or 1 second. The problem lies in the factoring and that alone. The 1.20/.90 car will loose weight either from removing weight or switching to a body style that is easier to take weight out of and still be 1.20 under or maybe more. And the correct weight 1.00./.70 car is farther behind because he was correctly factored and ran his car all out. Looks like the correctly factored car looses big time in the index changing game.

Don't take everything you read on here as truth. I have (a number larger than 2 and not more than 10) customers cars as I type that can run 1.15 to 1.20 under and are OVER 400 lbs. heavy for their natural class. They are also underfactored by at least 35 hp. No problem. A few of them are not willing to do the carbon fiber body panels in the new style body scam and a few have low milage older body styles that they don't want to acid out so they are naturally somewhat heavy. They are perfectly legal, just quite a bit underfactored (due partially to the cylinder head rules that were put in place in the past few years). These are not "cutting edge cars" meaning there are still a couple tenths left in them.

Billy has made some of the most intelligent posts on this subject so far.

Tech has been beaten down and over-ruled so many times in recent years that it seems like its easier to allow it and make a rule change than to give illegal cars a vacation. I like X-Techmans ideas alot. Many wouldn't like my opinion: Run em' off the index or record (I don't care) and may the best builder/tuner/racer win. Still correct factoring would be the key. Many say that this would be the downfall of S/SS like in the past. But the only reason car counts dropped years ago was a lack of factoring and imput from big money. Basically selective factoring and favors....same as we have today. Also that was the era when racers decided that they would rather buy hp (and chassis) than to try to do it themselves. A lack of work ethic that is present today more than ever.

Somewhere in this thread it was said that "anybody should be able to build an .8 - 1.00 under S/SS with todays rules". I don't think that is as easy with a close to correctly factored combo. Not impossible by any means but not quite as easy as that post sounded. Its pretty easy to buy one however, if the budget allows. Maintaining it is a whole different topic.

Do whatever with the indexes and rules that you like........quite a few are loosing interest every day in this type of racing due to incompetent rule making and selective or just plain lazy factoring. I will leave you with this: Everybody loves the underdog and also very few have the mechanical ability to spot a bunny combo for what it is. However, I can quarantee if you can properly seal rings or build a really good q-jet that you aren't impressed in the least at the underfactored top ten car regardless of the index.

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

SS Engine Guy: Very well said and clearly explained! Ditto's:)

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

GTX John and SS Engine Guy ... x2!

Then again, this whole discussion is like most others. The vast majority of people fall either on the extreme left or extreme right of the argument, and no amount of explanation from either side is going to change the mind of the other, regardless of who is "right".

It's amazing to me how so many things are just a verbal hand grenade these days. With something as serious as the topics at hand, why is there no real analysis from the get-go?
1) Is there a problem?
2) If yes, what is the problem?
3) Propose solutions
4) What are the effects, short term and long term of those proposals?
5) What are the unintended side effects, short term and long term?
6) Does the reward outweigh the risk?

etc, etc...

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

Michael, the people who make these decisions don't have a clue.

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

And that constitutes a big part of the problem!

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

And that constitutes another part of the problem!