Re: Original hemi dart information
 

The Kilbane Dart and the S&S Dart are two different cars. The S&S Dart is still around and was at the Hemi Reunion at Quaker City in 08'. The original owner was also there - so was Denny Kilbane. I invited Wayne Schultz - I am not sure if he was there?? I am tracking the history of the Kilbane car now. Funny, a good friend of mine built his first Hemi at Wayne's shop - The Dart was there at the time.
Mark Janaky

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

[.......Mark J,, Got (3) on Charlie Lendrum,,,one with the 69' grille and
rear deck spoiler, running Pro/Stock 1971..The hood scoop looks slightly altered..It looks like at York US 30, so I'm guessing the 1971 Super Stock Magazine Nationals, May 71. You know, Albany Dodge is still in business, in Albany, New York.
Paul[/QUOTE]

Paul,
I started really looking at the Picture that I have of Lendrum's Dart and it does have the rear spoiler - the camera angle and the background just kind of camoflaged it! Do you have any when still had the 68 grille?
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks for the reply. I have an old photo of the S&S Dart in the pits at I think it was Dragway 42. When Kilbane car was around, I don't remember seeing the S&S Dart around until 69. Didn't S&S have a nasty black 33 Willys with a big inch blown hemi at one time? And who is Wayne Schultz? Is he from the Cleveland area?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Any chance you could scan and send me a copy of the S&S Dart pic? I am not sure about the Willys. Wayne owned the Dart and I am assuming one of the "S" in S&S. A good friend of mine is currently restoring the Hall & Williams Dart from the Cleveland area. Is there any chance that you might have some pics of this car. We have found some from Chuck Gilchrist but always looking for more.
Thanks,
Mark J
dart4261964@yahoo.com

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Sorry for the interuption but can you recommend some kind of Mopar event this Spring/Summer/Fall (2010) where one could get a "taste" of what's been talked about here. Could be a car show, drag race, or whatever...Would have to be reasonably close to Northeast or NYC area...NJ and PA maybe o.k. Got a friend who was Mopar dealer mechanic in late 1960's...Boston area. He's not too keen on long "road trips" due to age...We went to a large Mopar event at E-town...must have been 10 years or so ago..but looking for a different place...One of the days there was "mufflers-only"...that really sucked! Is Hemi-Reunion still in Ohio?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

The Hemi Reunion was a one time deal but you might want to check out the York Reunion. Darwin Doll puts that on in June I think. All kinds of old drag cars and the racers (all makes). It is a two day deal and I belive the second day is at a Dragstrip (Beaver Springs?). I will see if I can find some info on it for you. Any chance that your buddy used to work at Boch Dodge??
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Looks like it is in July - Chevys are featured this year but there will be all makes. Check out this site: http://www.yorknostalgia.com/
Check out previous years photos, I think that you will like it.
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks for the info.........The York Reunion is a very good one....never been able to go. No, my friend worked at North Shore Chrysler-Plymouth........

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,,
Have to go through my files for Charlie Lendrum stuff. I know I have one of him at Lebanon Valley (early shot of the Dart),,also at New York National, L.I., New York,,and at York US30, PA...One I definitely have, is him at Island Dragstrip, Great Meadows, NJ versus Bill Stiles. The Pro/S
photo of him is from 1971 (I believe),,check closely and you can see some alterations to the hood scoop. There is a lost photo of him on the internet at Milton, Vermont,,,not sure if it is his 65' Chevelle A/FX 427
'Northern Shaker' or the Albany Dodge car???
More paperwork to go through.......Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Hey Paul C........where can I find Milton,Vermont stuff....photos,etc. Always wondered about that place......

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark, I found the S&S Dart photo.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

ss wannabe,,
Hard to find any good stuff on Milton, Vermont track,, Located in
northern Vermont,,,,closed in 1969. Had alot of A/FX cars there in
mid 60's...Try Ralph Ridgeway photos or Deb's Automotive out of
Hartford CT/Springfield, Mass. They had many of their racers up in Milton...Charlie Lendrum was up there in 66' with his 65' A/FX Chevelle
'Northern Shaker"..Shirley Muldowney was there (upstate New York
Chick),,as well as several New York Capitol Region (Albany County).
Again, hard to find any good pictures.,,I'll see what I can come up with.
Same thing with Orange Dragstrip (Fitchburg, Mass.) closed in early 70',
just as things were starting to get good.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

ss wannabee,
Check the Burlington Free Press, for Milton Dragstrip pictures, from their archives..Also, Milton Town Hall has general info and stuff. More than I
can produce.
2fastforu,,
Have you ever heard of Bill Jensen,,1965 426 S/S Belvedere, Have a picture of him racing Charlie Lendrum (i believe its him).
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Anyone,Check out the doverdragstrip.com site for a new Hemi Cuda photo ofPhil Cerrone's 'Harris Auto Sales' Cuda... An original SS/BA,,photo fromLebanon Valley 68'/69'... Photo is in black & white...Real color, red top, white center,,with red-lace..Another 10.90 car..Harris Auto out of R.I. also co-sponsored John Macey's SS/BA 'Heads Up' Cuda. (2) SS/BA Cuda's running out of the same place, in 1968!!Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Is this by any chance the red "Docs Dart"????

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

No, it's a light teal color with a Paisley print inset on the sides with S&S Dyno Service on the doors. I always thought it was the old Kilbane Dodge dart out of Strongsville, Ohio.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

WJ or Flinstone,
Any info on a Joseph Patrelli or Petrelli.
Out of Springfield, Mass. Got one of the original 68' Hemi
Darts. SS/BA. Was lettered with 'Deb's Automotive' on the
front fender. Not a nice lettering job.
May have ended up in northeastern Mass, in 69'/70', as a
C/Gas car?
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, flintstonecharger knows that Patrelli car, I'm sure.....The Gene O'Neill car ran frequently at the Milton, Vt. track....pretty sure of it...flintstone should comment on this, soon....WJ

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

WJ,
Thanks for the quick-response.
Not alot of info on this car. But, supposedly was one of the original
83 or 84, 68' Hemi Darts.
General info, says it came out of Hampden Dodge (State Street,
Springfield). Owner; Joseph Patrelli or Petrelli??
Was lettered with 'Deb's Automotive'. Poor lettering job on front fender.
No mags,,just steel wheels, Pretty rough paint too..
Have info on S/S Eliminator win at Orange Dragstrip. 11.20's in SS/BA
in 68', when the SS/BA minimum was 11.05. Must have been in
the summer of 68'.
Probably hit Milton, Vermont also for second-half of 68', until track closed in 69'. Car had to go through the "Deb's Dyno-Shop" in Springfield.
Lost car,,,traces of it in northeast, Mass. late 69' and 70'??
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Hello Paul,only unconfirmed info I have on car was maybe Joe Patel?,Hamden Dodge,may have photo,will have to do some digging.Can ask my uncle Gene and Chick Brignola if they remember car.I thought Mark Janeky had some info on that Dart?? Orange Dragway reunion Sept. 11,saw on there site recently.Dickie Levereault had new a990 dodge I believe came from Hamden Dodge,eventually turned into altered wheelbase car called Tom Terriffic,sponsored by Big Daddy's Speed Shop,No. Grafton,Mass.Nice pic. of car in Steve Magnante's new book How to Build Altered Wheelbase Cars,just got book today,real good stuff,Maybe Dickie knew the guy with the Dart??Later, SteveO

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, In my Ralph Ridgeway thread, Ralph left his email addy in his post....I'll bet if you contact him, he'd love to share some of his wealth of info related to this time frame we're speaking of......it was amidst the height of his racing career as well....Regards...WJ

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Steve O. & WJ
Thanks for the help. I'm kind of re-visiting this lost Dart.
Here's what I've got. Hampden Dodge, 648 State Street, Springfield.
Can't locate a (Hamden Dodge). Car definitely had 'Debs' Automotive'
lettering. Can't define the name, some say Joe Patel, others think
Patrelli or Petrelli. Maybe Ralph Ridgeway would know??
Was at Orange Dragstrip, and probably Milton, VT, and most likely
Connecticut. Never saw that cat at Dover.
If he was with the 'Deb's' crew, probably made a few visits across the
north border into Canada.
An SS/BA car. Found info, of 11.20's and winning in S/S Eliminator.
Not a low E.T. , but Bill Stiles set the first SS/BA ET at 11.06 in
July 68, at Island Dragway, New Jersey. Probably with both feet on the brake-pedal!!
The Dart is probably sitting behind someones garage in northern Mass.,
surrounded by weeds and other junked cars. OH, THE HORROR!!
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, email Ralph.....He said he'd share info on his equipment and his era....and like I said, Steve O'Neill, although was just a "pup",when it was the heyday of running these cars :D, has big knowledge of these pieces, along w/his Uncle Gene ( who actually owned and raced the stuff.....) WJ

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

A friend of mine knew Joe Patel well back in the day, and shared some info today. He actually was given the original dealership ordering paperwork by Joe years ago, still has it somewhere, and had the cars original AT trans until a few years ago. He thought the Dart was painted a dark color, brown or maroon. He had a chance to buy it for $2200 back @ 1972. It was sitting, minus engine/trans, fairly cut up, behind Deb's shop in the snow. My friend passed on it and thought the car went to Michigan @ '72-'73, and has not heard about it since.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

HEMIDARTDAVE,
Thanks for info. Anything helps, while searching for this lost Dart.
My black & white photo, can't distinguish color, only that it is dark.
"Deb's Automotive" best reference point.
'Hampden Dodge',,southeastern part of Springfield, Mass.
Won at Orange Dragstrip, August/Sept 68'. Heard it went C/G or
something like that in 69'/70'. Then POOF!
Paul,,,

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
Is there any chance you would post or email me a copy of that pic?
Thanks, Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

OILY-OLLIE,
Hampden Dodge in Springfield, Mass. (Hampden County).
Not the Hamptons, L.I...
Not sure if it was a Hampden Dodge only co-sponsorship, or
Hampden County Dodge Dealers Assn. deal.
Hampden County had about 15 dealers, plus an additional 3 or 4
on the outer perimeter area.
You could be correct, with 20 dealers involved??
No 68' Hemi cars were represented in Western, Mass., other than
Hampden.
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
Thanks on the S & K info.
I wonder if they kept that car into 69'.
Also, was the first official race for a 68' Hemi Dart by
Dick Landy, at the Hot Rod Magazine Drags, Riverside in late March 68'.
Can't find anybody running any earlier.
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark.
The owner of the Deb's Automotive Dart, out the Springfield, Mass. area was Joseph Petelle (correct spelling).
Also, not 100% sure, but found a photo of a purple 68' Hemi Cuda out at
New York National, lettered with 'Jerry's Automotive' (photo from 68/69)
* Maybe the missing Cuda from Long Island, NY.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Hi paul, there is a gentleman started a post and is looking for photo's of a a990 car lettered -------------confederate yankee. Car was supposedly co-owned by ted spehar. I just think you might be the man to help him.-------john

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

FINESPLINE,
If its a Ted Spehar car, I;m guessing Michigan, Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, and Western New York.
I think Jason was searching for photo's of his Uncles FoMoCo
64/65 car. I stumbled upon it somewhere awhile ago.
May have been pictured with with Louie Lucce's 'Special Formula' AWB out of Staten Island, NY.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
Stumbled upon one.
August 1968, SS/B Barracuda 'Private Enterprise'.
Ran at Suffolk, Virginia in S/S Eliminator Finals versus
Dave Stricklers 68' SS/F Z-28 Camaro.
The Cuda ran under the record, with a 10.79.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

R/T,
No way am I an expert on this stuff.
Mark J. is 'the Historian' on this stuff.
I can only fill in 'bit's-n-pieces'.
What I think, is that the first cars went out in March.
By printed facts, I think Dick Landy ran his Dart at the
Hot Rod Magazine Drags, last week of March 1968.
There are photo's of his car classed in SS/BA, but I don't think
he could run it legal-wise. NHRA didn't approve them yet. 50 were not
out there, or legitamized yet. He may have run A/MP or just Match-raced it at that event.
Several of the SS/B-SS/BA cars were running in S/S competition in
late-May 68'. The Springnationals were of course, in June.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Roger,
The Dick Landy Dart at the 1968 Winternationals is not the SS/BA
LO23 Hemi Dart.
The Dart was a 1968 440 Dart. It ran in SS/EA at the Winternationals
and for the rest of 1968. I'm not sure if it was part of the Mr. Norm's
run of GSS 440 cars. Look closely at the hood, no scoop, the Dart had the power bulge hood with the chrome-stripe strips, with the engine nomenclatures.
I think Landy Enterprises had (4) cars there. The SS/EA 440 68' Dart,
a SS/F 440 68' Coronet R/T, a SS/D 68' Street-Hemi Charger, and the SS/DA 67' W/O Hemi Coronet R/T.
I don't think the 67' 440 R/T (1967 classed B/SA and/or SS/EA) car was there.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul
I could be wrong, but I think then 69 darts had the engine size on the hood bulge inserts, the 68 just has a 4 stack arrangement trimmed in red on the inserts. The 68 383 and 440 had fender badges.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Stewart,
You are correct. I forgot. The 68' Darts had the 4 inserts inside the
thin horizontal power bulge.
The 68' GSS 440 cars still had the 383 emblems on the fenders.
Nice to know, Dick Landy won the SS/EA class at the 1968
Winternationals, defeating Gas Ronda in the Russ Davis Ford factory-backed 68' Cobra-Jet Mustang. 12.01 @118.73.
Paul...Thank you for the correction..

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Roger,
I think the CC article was not correct.
And you are right, it is confusing as hell trying to figure out all
the cars.
Dick Landy won the 69' Winternationals Street/Eliminator in
B/MP with a 68' Charger. It had the full-grille (68' style) and a
small hood scoop. There were no R/T insignia emblems on that car. Later on, he changed the hood scoop to a low-profile one, just like the 65 A-990 Super/Stock cars. Hope that helps.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark,
Saw a couple of photos of the Hemi Cuda Test Mule.
Perplexing question. That car wasn't set-up like the factory cars.
The Test Mule had under-coating all over the place.
The under-carriage wasn't even sand-blasted prior to testing.
Had to be a good 70 lbs. of extra sealant on the car.
There must have been a lot a paper calculations on just what that car would turn.
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the prototype BO23 'Cuda started out as an 383 Barracuda Formula S model therefore the added 'baggage.'

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I just found this photo (online) tonight.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1087/suppacuda01.jpg

Any history?

M68