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-   -   Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH! (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=34410)

Paul Wong 02-03-2014 11:04 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Toller (Post 419132)
I picture those Caprice/Impalas as being our generations 55-57 cars?

Here's one, it would need weight removed, but on the plus you could race in rich, corinthian leather: 77-78 Cordoba 318. Very plentiful in my neck of the woods, 8 1/4 rear (B-body 8 3/4 will fit), sturdy and cheap (demo derby guys LOVE them), they come in at 21.19, (3900 lbs!) but I know firsthand they are loaded with unnecessary lean-burn emissions crap and sound deadener, so getting some weight out wouldn't be as daunting as one might think. It also looks like, though maybe a deal breaker, the Edelbrock heads are allowed?

The edelbrock heads will take 4000 to 6000 to make work and would defeat the dime rocket theory. The limiting factor which is the carburetor won't need the aluminum heads anyway.

Billy Nees 02-04-2014 08:41 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Toller (Post 419129)
There is a 79 in my local wrecking yard; it has a 2G on it, but who knows?

78 looks like a natural R, could be a T, still doable?

I just wanna see more oddballs in U!

Joe, if the car that you're looking at has the correct number intake and carb, it's good to go. Just not for you!

Now focus, focus, deep breathing, finish Comet.

Joe Toller 02-04-2014 09:40 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
No worries Billy, just killing time. Right now the straight temp is -14, and the car is in the carport. I am way too close on this thing to stop now!

Billy Nees 02-04-2014 09:54 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
The Caprice would probably be the easiest body to find and definitely the least expensive but the Camaro/Firebird would be the better car.

And at this point in time, it won't come close to running with the 302s.

Dwight Southerland 02-04-2014 12:23 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 419125)
Joe, I'd have to put my eyeballs on that one. Every 79 305/2V that I ever saw had a Dual-jet carb, not a 2G. I guess that it's possible but I'd call it a 78.

I had a 79 Monza V8 that I bought new and it had a 2GC. However, the intake manifold number was 373598 like is listed for the '78 engines. I have also seen 79 Caprices, a 79 Firebird, a 79 Skylark and recently a 79 Nova with 2GCs, never a DualJet.

If you look at NHRA's sheets, they list the same intake manifold for the 267 with a DualJet and the 305 with the 2GC; is that possible? (I am not familiar with DualJets, other than they look like the front of a Qjet.) Also, is either of the 79 intake manifolds (14007372 & 14007374) aluminum?

The 78 alt intake 346260 is also used on the 76 and 77 305s, and the 75 and 76 350 2bbl. (Probably the 74 also; the tech sheet says 346266 but that could be a typo.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 419156)
And at this point in time, it won't come close to running with the 302s.

Agreed.

Billy Nees 02-05-2014 10:46 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 419189)
If you look at NHRA's sheets, they list the same intake manifold for the 267 with a DualJet and the 305 with the 2GC; is that possible?

No. The dual-jet and the 2GC have a different bolt pattern. I've had a 79 Caprice and a 79 Camaro, 305s both that had dual-jets on them. I wouldn't doubt that it has something to do with where the cars were built and what plant supplied the engines.

Dwight Southerland 02-05-2014 11:08 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
I did a bit of research last night and found that the two intake manifolds listed on the 79 tech sheet are both for DualJet. In fact, I physically inspected a 14007372 number which is cast iron. I'm going to chase down the carb numbers next. Billy, I think you are probably right about supply and model usage; maybe it has to do with timing in the production year, too. My Monza was ordered in September 1978 and delivered in October.

Bill Bogues 02-05-2014 08:39 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
I've been running the 82 267 Monte Carlo combo for a year now and I have to say the intake manifold on this car has to be the world's heaviest for a small block chevy. Love that dual-jet too. '

joe huestis 02-05-2014 10:00 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Been looking at some of these U/SA combos such as the late 70's Camaro with the 305-2V and the 80's combos with the 267-2V . At 180 HP vs. 150 for the 267 is it worth carrying the extra 600 lbs. with the 305 ? Which is the better combination and what other chevy combos may be the way to go for U ?

Billy Nees 02-06-2014 08:28 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Bogues (Post 419388)
I've been running the 82 267 Monte Carlo combo for a year now and I have to say the intake manifold on this car has to be the world's heaviest for a small block chevy. Love that dual-jet too. '

Bill, there is an aluminium intake available. I just don't remember which one it is.

Billy Nees 02-06-2014 08:35 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe huestis (Post 419405)
Been looking at some of these U/SA combos such as the late 70's Camaro with the 305-2V and the 80's combos with the 267-2V . At 180 HP vs. 150 for the 267 is it worth carrying the extra 600 lbs. with the 305 ? Which is the better combination and what other chevy combos may be the way to go for U ?

Joe, IMHO, I think that it's a wash. Personally, I don't like towing around heavy cars. The 2G carb is a bunch easier to deal with that the Dual-Jet.
You could just do a Camaro and get both 78 and 81 facias and run both!

Dwight Southerland 02-06-2014 12:55 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
'76 Chevelle is an interesting choice. With it you can run the 305 2bbl in U, but also have the option of 350 2bbl, 350 4bbl and 400 4bbl if you decide to make a career with the car. The '75 Chevy II 262 is another option for U.

Billy Nees 02-06-2014 01:30 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 419484)
The '75 Chevy II 262 is another option for U.

The thing that I don't like about the 75 262 is that it gets the small 2G(1.09vs.1.18). Now if NHRA would give it back all of the HP that the 76 motor has gotten on it well..........

Ron Middleton 02-06-2014 02:18 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Dwight,
I've been talking with Billy about such a combination as I have a near original 1976 Chevelle Laguna S3 in the shop now. Original 305 car

Dwight Southerland 02-06-2014 02:36 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 419495)
The thing that I don't like about the 75 262 is that it gets the small 2G(1.09vs.1.18). Now if NHRA would give it back all of the HP that the 76 motor has gotten on it well..........

?? '75 is 165 w/automatic, '76 is 171 w/automatic.

Billy Nees 02-06-2014 03:51 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 419513)
?? '75 is 165 w/automatic, '76 is 171 w/automatic.

I thought that there was more of a difference than that(what happens when you ASSume). The Nova was only available with 262 in 75 W/ small carb. I think that I'd rather have the 267 @ 150 HP if I had to take the 1.09 carb, even 165 is too much. 300 lbs. difference in U.

Mark Yacavone 02-06-2014 03:53 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe huestis (Post 419405)
Been looking at some of these U/SA combos such as the late 70's Camaro with the 305-2V and the 80's combos with the 267-2V . At 180 HP vs. 150 for the 267 is it worth carrying the extra 600 lbs. with the 305 ? Which is the better combination and what other chevy combos may be the way to go for U ?

Almost have to go with an 82 Monte 267...That's a lot of weight difference for sure.. Not quite in the Ford 302 range though.
For some reason though, the 1.21 Dual Jet doesn't seem to work as good as the 1.18 2GC ???

Dwight Southerland 02-06-2014 04:38 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 419526)
For some reason though, the 1.21 Dual Jet doesn't seem to work as good as the 1.18 2GC ???

It might have something to do with the 2GC having 1.686" throttle bores.

Mark Yacavone 02-06-2014 05:07 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Kinda what I was thinking...Not being an engineer, I don't know if one restriction in a carb over rides the other or vice versa..
Could have something to do with the booster/ venturi cluster being bigger in the Dual Jet...Seeing its part of the bowl casting, you are stuck with it.
Take a look at what some of the fast 4 GCs are using...

Dwight Southerland 02-06-2014 06:52 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Yes . . . what some are doing.

Back in the day of modifieds, they would use the body of a Holley list 4224 660 cfm carb fitted to an 850 double pumper base plate. The carb body would be reamed from the bottom to match the 1 3/4" size of the throttle bores. Voila! The new "blended" carb would flow in the 750-775 cfm range, but keep the small venturis for crisp throttle response and high quality fuel atomization for under 300 cu in engines. I suspect the difference between a 1.686"/1.093" carb and a 1.686"/1.186" carb would not be as great as one would fear.

Billy Nees 02-07-2014 08:56 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
From what brain cells that I have left, I seem to recall the 1.21 Dual-Jet flows about 290 CFM, the 1.18 2G about 320 CFM, the small-base 1.092G about 260 CFM. I've never played with a large-base 1.09 2G but I will assume(there I go ASSuming again) that because of it's larger and better shaped airhorn it would do better than a small-base 1.09.

Joe Toller 02-08-2014 03:43 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
For the AMC guys: 77 Matador Coupe, 304/180 in U? These are a unique car, no doubt, and if someone wanted one, there are four (yep, four) of these coupes in my local salvage yard, including a very nice tan on tan model. Ahh, another snowy Saturday...

Tom keedle 02-08-2014 07:38 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Toller (Post 419768)
For the AMC guys: 77 Matador Coupe, 304/180 in U? These are a unique car, no doubt, and if someone wanted one, there are four (yep, four) of these coupes in my local salvage yard, including a very nice tan on tan model. Ahh, another snowy Saturday...

wish they weren't so far away (and heavy)....
had one a while back that god didn't like, dropped a boulder on it and kinda hosed the roof...only had 36K on the clock,too.


btw, anther U/S car....221cid 62 fairlane...no, I don't have one but it'd be different

Billy Nees 02-08-2014 08:11 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom keedle (Post 419807)
btw, anther U/S car....221cid 62 fairlane...no, I don't have one but it'd be different

There's a 2dr. hdtp in my local yard that could be brought back. REALLY small carb(.097 venturi) and no modern autos bolt up. I always wanted to see a 255 Ford combo but the 302 "thing" makes it redundant.

Joe Toller 02-08-2014 08:28 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Isnt the 221 similar to the 260 and early 289 5-bolt bell? I thought there was a C4 bellto 5 bolt block but maybe it's aftermarket?

goinbroke2 02-09-2014 01:05 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Billy a few years ago there was a 255 mustang that was like .-3 after lots of work. The tiny ports on a 255 are laughable.
I think I saw it in Nitro's Joes Stats.
"Red" comes to mind for some reason, either the mustang was red or the guys name was red...or was it "Rich"....

I got "craft" disease, Can't Remember A Fing Thing.


Joe, yes the 221 was the original windsor before boring/stroking up to 302, but I think it only had the fordomatic tranny which was replaced by the c4 in 64 or 65. I think the last year of the 221 was 63. But, the 289 had 5 bolts in 64 and the c4 started in 64..so maybe there was a 64 5 bolt c4 for a 289? But I really don't think so. I'd say it would have to be aftermarket.

Mark Yacavone 02-09-2014 01:24 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
If you really want to throw money down a rat hole, just sleeve all 8 in a 260 block.

Robert Swartz 02-09-2014 02:28 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Mark, Billy, man, you guys are making me feel really old. Talking about 221 and 260 Fords, LOL! I Haven't heard of anyone messing with either of those motors for 40 years. One of the neighbor girls had a boyfriend back home that ran a 63-64 Fairlane with a 260 when I was a 13-14 year old kid. Her brothers and he would prep the car. They'd flat tow it down to Freedom Dragstrip (now called New Hope). Then come home, change the rear tires, put the mufflers back on it, go cruising on Sunday nite, show off the trophy at the Drive Ins. That would've been about 1968. Even being a dumb country boy buried in the sticks, I remember there were a lot of nice cars running around back then.

These would be tough engines to find parts for, today. Unlike 265 or even 283 Chevy's. I doubt much of this stuff was hoarded or held onto. Heads, intakes and usable carburetors would be fun! What about legal pistons. Other than maybe something left on a dusty shelf, could you even get pistons for either of these engines, now? Talk about a challenge

Joe Toller 12-30-2018 12:44 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 419325)
No. The dual-jet and the 2GC have a different bolt pattern. I've had a 79 Caprice and a 79 Camaro, 305s both that had dual-jets on them. I wouldn't doubt that it has something to do with where the cars were built and what plant supplied the engines.

How does one go about fixing this? The tech sheet calls for what looks like the 2GC though the intake is not?. I could swap grilles and make a 77 ( have to change header panel too) or 78 (run in T) but the 79 is a favorable U. Looking at a 79 Caprice 2dr, the funky sloped back window version.

Billy Nees 12-30-2018 08:25 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Make it a 77.

Dwight Southerland 12-30-2018 09:37 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
77 is a big change with the bumpers. What's wrong about the '78? Run it as an LT and it is still in U. Much easier change.

Billy Nees 12-30-2018 10:25 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
I thought that the 77/78/79 were all the same minus grilles and tail lights?!?

Tim H 12-30-2018 11:09 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Are you discussing Camaro or Caprice ?

Billy Nees 12-30-2018 11:35 AM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
I believe that Mr. Toller is talking about a Caprice.

Mark Yacavone 12-30-2018 12:33 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Toller (Post 394073)
And what pops up in my local auto trader? An 82 Mustang 302/4spd for $500!

Damn!

What a difference 5 years made.
If this one was still available, I'd be on the way right now.
Note: since this thread started, the 82 was brought back to the original 157 hp. ( in the
Wholesale 302 2v Massacre Reduction)
I don't mind pointing this out , because it is now "stick only" , as it should have been all along. Nobody is going to build one anyway because everybody knows you can't win with a low class stick shift car.

Dwight Southerland 12-30-2018 12:38 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 579288)
I believe that Mr. Toller is talking about a Caprice.

I thought he was talking about a Camaro.

sskwb 12-30-2018 02:11 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 579291)
What a difference 5 years made.
If this one was still available, I'd be on the way right now.
Note: since this thread started, the 82 was brought back to the original 157 hp. ( in the
Wholesale 302 2v Massacre Reduction)
I don't mind pointing this out , because it is now "stick only" , as it should have been all along. Nobody is going to build one anyway because
Quote:

everybody knows you can't win with a low class stick shift car
.

I know in general it is more difficult to win with a stick shift car.Why does the lower class stick shift make it even more difficult?

Joe Toller 12-30-2018 02:31 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 579292)
I thought he was talking about a Camaro.

It's a Caprice. If I can get this beast home ($!) I'll make it a 77. Thanks!
Option B is a 77 Pontiac Catalina 4dr. Man it's ugly.
Either way, 305 2bbl is what I'm aiming for.

Mark Yacavone 01-01-2019 02:33 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sskwb (Post 579303)
I know in general it is more difficult to win with a stick shift car.Why does the lower class stick shift make it even more difficult?

I was being facetious.
I don't believe any of that for a minute. It's all BS ;-)

MR DERBY CITY 01-01-2019 03:09 PM

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 
[QUOTE=Mark Yacavone;579470]I was being facetious.
I don't believe any of that for a minute. It's all BS ;-)[/QUOTE. George Williams didn’t believe it either....Z/s Vega wagon.....


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