Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I just increased the font size, and changed the color to red. You posted it.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Your missing the point and just want to argue.:confused:

So is a three speed the way it came from Chevy and that's truthful?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Do a search.


Call it begging if you like. I am happy with my COPO.


This is a very sad quote. I wish you all the best in life, but I will never respond to any more of what comes from you. You are a very little man.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Anyone else's head hurt reading this thread or is it just me?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The word is "you're", not "your".

You came into this thread claiming that the two cars in question had $100K spent on each of them, and were "ground up BIW builds", all of that being done in two weeks.

And you claim others are missing the point and want to argue? :rolleyes:

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Cavnazzi's car was tuned by Brian Macy, but Patterson's tune was untouched until I tweaked it a little at the rained out Topeka div race on the way to Indy. A GM rep told them to not go a second under at Indy, which made Connolly very unhappy. They would both go 1+ under, and Parrerson's engine had never been out of the car at that time. Are they way under-rated? Absolutely!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Greg you and Andrew both want a unlevel playing field, that is why you never run your cars all out. If you get HP on your combo you won't have that advantage over slower cars in your class. Your just like everyone else. Get off your high horse. I will play by any rules NHRA puts in place. Because I love to race.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I don't race Stock anymore but it's not the new cars that ruined it for me, it was the heads-up races in eliminations, simply took too much money to try to keep the car fast enopugh to protect your expenses and race for a purse that is less than my local bracket track pays every weekend.

Do you guys EVER see each other at the track????????????? That could get interesting with the attitudes you have on a keyboard.

The "Deal" has been struck by NHRA to get the factories involved, get over it. Want to fix the issue, don't support NHRA events and let them know every week why 200 of you are staying home from their events.

Money is the only pressure NHRA can bend over for. It has always been that way (SFI rules for seatbelts, the old muffler rule, trans shields that "wear out" in 5 years, etc, etc.) and it will always be that way as they need more cash to operate.

It wouldn't surprise me if they drop Stock/Super Stock becasue of the rule enforcement personnel it takes and the constant complaining. Add another 100 Super Class, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman and footbrake racers to a National Event and those spectators won't notice a thing. Sad day if it happens, but in my opinion it is a viable option for them.

Jok

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I'm with you on that. But since it's winter and theres nothing else to do car wise, this is cheap entertainment. Keep up the good work!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I started the first FX thread. You and I bumped heads over the course of that entire thread. So, I guess you'll write a letter like Greg suggested.

Funny, I think you are a very little man for what you have done to our category. It's sad that you have to express yourself with factory hot rods to take advantage of fellow racers. You guys are killing an entire category with 1,000+ racers and all you think of is yourselves. Now that is sad!

And there are more than just a dozen of us that feel this way - there are over 1,000 of us but they are smart enough not to come out here and butt heads with you hot dogs.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So we have an advantage over the 400 Pontiacs, 340 Chryslers, LS1 Corvettes and GTOs? As I said before, I'd be insane to go out and go 1.10 under at the Indy points race, get 7 HP, and show up at Columbus in July, have to race Randi Lynn (again, haha) and spot her 70 lbs. Or I could go to Earlville, race Brad VanLant and spot him 170 instead of the 100 I already do. If I had multiple tenths over the competition, I'd go out and qualify number one every race, but I don't have that luxury.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Charley,

Of course life isn't fair there are millions of people suffering every day that need just the basics to survive and these basics are being denied.

But, in the small little world of drag racing we pay dues to an outfit that claims on their tax forms that they are an automotive racing sanctioning body that ensures safe and fair enforcement of their rules. We all know what a joke that has turned out to be and we know this outfit is incorrigible, at least, until the authorities finally catch up with them. So that leaves the folks who gleefully come in to take advantage of the situation. How is this behavior deserving of respect from your fellow racers?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Wow!!! 426 Posts. Is that a record. Only a Bow Tie string could go this far.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

No it's not a record. We closed the original FX thread at 500 posts. It took only one week. I beleive the record is more than 500.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Its a record for me. I have actually read all 43 pages of this novel, hanging off the edge of my seat in anticipation of the next post. It is truely wonderful entertainment. It shows the love and respect that class racers share during the Holiday season.
Pass the popcorn..............

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It's better than the movie, and a large & medium popcorn, large & medium coke, and box of raisnetts about $30 and stardard admission for seniors even during the week. Course Bond blew up a lot of stuff so life is back to normal.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

You've read more than I have.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I have said it before but it does no good. You guys with the older cars do not listen. Take 2013 off. Just race your local circuit races and work on your equipment. Stay close to home and save a ton of money for the next year. The ONLY way NHRA will listen is if you hit them in their wallets. It will take a 100% effort on each of you. They dont care about you any other way other than your dollars. Let the rich guys have at it with their new super cars. Maybe the AHFS will work quicker. Sooner or later NHRA will see what is going on. If not.....What have you lost ? Not much from what I see. Either that or keep taking it up your shorts !

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Daniel,
One of my first post in this thread was talking about just that. I want to see if NHRA factors the Chevys as tough as the '13 Ford factors. In my opinion the '13 Ford combos are the most honest hp ratings of any of the new super cars.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Hope your not including the 351" crate engine in that. 312 HP?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

There are more opinions in this thread than in Bruce's poll..

Must be a lot of uninvolved third parties here.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

X_TECH MAN is totally correct. We saved enough money to purchase a second home. Thanks NHRA, I never realized how much you cared..... Jim

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Ed I don't see a 351 or an engine factored at 312hp in the '13 options.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

As far as the supercharged cars go, I'd say 500 is about right for the smaller blower cars. The ones like yours and the COPO with the 2.9L blower maybe 20-30 more, I'm not sure how much better it is.

The 427 COPO would be closer around 460 I'd say, and the 428/427 CJ around 440-450. The 2010 352 CJ should be around 400, as should the 2012 363 (comparing it to the 5.7L hemi which still qualifies at the top). The 2010 281 CJ should probably be 310-315 or so, and the 2012 302 maybe 360-370. I'd put the 2013 302 CJ around 410-415.

The 5.7L and 6.1L DPs seem to be rated pretty fair now (421 and 440), the 6.4 probably needs another 20 or so to be rated similar to the 6.1, and the 5.9 should be around 375.

These are just my estimations as to what I think would be a lot closer, some still might be a little too soft, some maybe a little too hard. It's also difficult to compare when you get to the higher classes because the indexes as you move from A->CC->BB etc get so much tougher.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Yea Andie my 281 motor rated at 315hp while the 1991 350 corvette is rated at 260hp(with a stick). That's real fair. The 281 in STK (with a current HP rating of around 260HP) is within 15 HP of where it needs to be(275-280).
If my motor is 50 HP soft, then your combo is 25 HP soft.

If your dad and others( bruce) hate NHRA so much why do you guys still race with them? No one is make you guys pay your memberships. Like it was posted earlier, take 2013 off and see if NHRA cares. But I can bet they could not give a **$$ if 50 or so of you take this year off.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That one's soft as hell too, but if we're talking sticks, the 5.7 Hemi at 305 takes the cake. If I'm not mistaken, that 350 Corvette has a terrible intake, it would be an even better superstock combination.

Do you not think your motor can make close to 1.75 hp per cubic inch?

If I wasn't racing he probably wouldn't. I think he likes the beer drinking aspect the most anyways.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

No Andie , between 442-453 is all HP we could get out of the new motor at big stuffs two weeks ago. With good pistons .70 over, killer stocker ring package and a new set of killer heads. And one of the best tuners in the country. No matter how good of parts we have we still only have 281CI to work with.
There is not that much to gain with this new stuff. The factory part are really good. We spent over 14 grand on the new motor with all kinds od stocker tricks and picked up 12-15 HP over the old mostly stock stuff wich made 440 HP.
I might be able to make 490-500 HP with a SS intake, SS pistons, SS heads and a few other SS things, but I still think 480-490 HP is around the max for a SS motor.

If you dad likes coming just to hang out he should be more like Bob and not care what the new cars are doing. Just where to eat.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The main problem I have with the bogus HP factors is that the performance aspect of class racing is already going by the wayside, and that is the only thing that separates stock and superstock from normal bracket racing. I like bracket racing, but heads ups and class are what make stock/ss the absolute best.

Imagine this: D/SA at Indy including myself, Randi Lynn Shipp, Bryan Phillips, Brad VanLant, Adam Davis, Tommy Gaynor, Leo Glasbrenner, Paul Boster, Vic Guilmino, and I'm sure there are some other really fast cars I'm forgetting. 350 Chevys, 400 Pontiacs, 340 Chryslers, LS1, 396 Chevy, maybe throw in a fast LT1. Talk about a bad *** class race. Then imagine one 352 Ford that's been prepared well and will run about .4 faster than any car on that list. Now everyone's racing for second place.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Could this be away for NHRA to deal with pain in the butt class racers and do away with stock all together the go all super gas type classes? All class racers think super gas type cars are weak? But they are simple to tech will pay their entries and never cry. Just a thought?
Conway

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Andie, who won C/SA and D/SA at Indy this year?

Conway lets not give NHRA any ideas. Beside that would be bad for you and JT. You guys would have way less customers if STK or SS went away.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So then around 300 would be a fair number, I guess I wasn't too far off.

You say my motor is soft, it makes almost exactly 1.5 hp/rated hp. Assuming you're telling me the truth, you're about 43 rated hp away from that number.

Just curious, how many different cams have you guys tried, I'm sure there is a lot to be found there considering there haven't been many overhead cam stockers out there until the last couple years.

A 352 mustang red lit in the final of D, and Bryan Phillips won (super happy to see that). Kyle Ratcliff, who has one of the fastest LT1s in the country, won C, the new 302 in that class didn't run worth a crap (a 1.46 60' won't get it done). Did you notice what happened in E and F?

By the way, I go by Andrew, thanks.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I would have loved to be at Indy last year, just couldn't make it because of school. Unless I'm mistaken, none of the D3 national events in the summer had class, and I had to pick and choose which weekends I could get off from work. I raced class at Belle Rose last year and would have at Columbus, but ND decided to schedule the Michigan game that weekend (GO IRISH!).

And I didn't mean to forget you, just knew that you ran E/F most of last year, I thought you were in E at Indy, my mistake.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The mustang in D/SA was -.005 on the tree. That's the only reason he didn't win.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That is certainly one option available.

The other option is to take your OLD car to the race and WIN the Wally.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That's my goal, too. As frustrated as some of the new car stuff makes me, I'm not going to let it keep me from doing what I love to do.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

My feelings are hurt. Yall didn't even mention me. Anyway we will probably be in D,E, & F this year. I can't get to D cause I'm too fat, but I'm goin on a diet. And just what is wrong with drinkin beer at the races? Sombody got a probalm with that?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Run that car out a little more and you can come join the fun in D without even going on a diet! There's absolutely nothing wrong with drinking beer at the races. It's been more than once I've heard, "my drinkin' buddies have a racing problem!"

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Sorry, how about 352" rated at 285 hp?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That's my point. The 352 was a '10 option and its equivalent is basically the 363 rated at 330hp. A 45 hp hit for '13. The 428 I believe was at 383 and now the 427 is at 425, a 42 hp hit for '13. I don't know if NHRA is behind this or if its Ford. I'll be honest. I cancelled my '13 BIW Competition Kit when I found out that the 5.0 N/A was going to be rated at 350 hp. That is the most N/A hp/cube engine I can find in the guide. After I heard that I was just going to make it a '10-'12 car and build a 352 or 428 but I didn't know if how much body panels I would had to change out to make a '13 a '10-'12. That's when I said the heck with it.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I mis -typed the cubic inches, and was told 312 HP. Isn't that the 12-1 compression engine?
I might need to build a Mustang.