Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, more than one has said the pros use worst red instead of first red. That is in correct. I would expect a 3rd grader to know first & worst has to be the same car in a heads-up situation. If you read all this mess you would see it mentioned more than once.
If you don't go to the "HRAs" with this nothing will happen. You aren't going to fix anything here.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill is SO easy to tweak. LMAO!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

WE ???
When ?
Where?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Ed, don't the pro's use the worst red lite? Is not the first red light really the worst red light in pro heads up racing? Is it not that way in ANY heads up race? You are grasping at straws Ed, what's your point? Everyone agrees that in a heads up race, the first red is the worst red! You agree, so does Bill. You have no GOOD reason to oppose his conversation about changing this rule. He and others here have brought forth a good argument for a REAL enhancement to the sport. It has positive merit. It hurts NO ONE! I must admit, it made me think long and hard about the situation. The points he and others have made here are valid! When you look at this with an open mind and not with a personal agenda, it makes good sense! Period! You are correct about one thing, the HRA's need to be petitioned about this. Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Jim, ask an official. Same rule. Worst is the obvious way to determin the first. Some bring it up like it is different for the pros. It is not.
If you pay attention you will have read I almost always leave first, and don't care if they change it or not. It just is going to happen be carrying on about it here. I have no agenda. Again, I don't care if they change it or not. If some need some Obama Care to not feel short changed, then go for it. I do not care. I just think all this crap here is a stupid waste, since nothing is being (or will be) accomplished here. I don't think anything is going to happen anyway. Life is not fair.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

One more time Bill...Why are YOU not petitioning NHRA's for this?
Can't you stand on your own two feet and move forward? What are you afraid of?
You remind me of the guy in the back of the room prodding others to ask for longer breaks, more pay, more or less whatever, hoping that if somebody has to fall on a sword it will be somebody besides himself. Somebody with some balls get's suckered in, looses his job and your the one that says "Man, that just wasn't fair..."
Get on it today. NHRA is open another 3 hours. It's Monday. That gives more than enough time for somebody to return your phone call. Here, I'll make it easy on you:
626-914-8963 or tech@nhra.com

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

If you don't know, you're one of the few.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You don't KNOW ???
Figures........

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Wow..........

This is still going?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I bought a new washer and dryer ......:p
They were delivered today
They are both white and were cheap from Home Depot...
I put them side by side and tried to simulate a drag race with them and had both of them redlighted:rolleyes:......not sure which one was worse though:o
I gave the win to the dryer because I like things that get hot......:cool:

Then I celebrated with some Yeungling light beers.......:cool:

I just can't believe this thread is still going on.....:eek:

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Jeff, this a discussion board, right? I think we can agree on that. It is not just a discussion board; it is a discussion board dedicated to the idea that non-racers have brains, too, and CAN have good ideas, and need a place to put those ideas out for public scrutiny. Ken created this board for just such a purpose. Ask him...

I have been able to, through my many posts here that explain the reasons why I think this "worse" red light idea could be an improvement over what we have, to use this board as Ken intended it.. Why anyone would object to using this board for the betterment of our sport is beyond me.

Some say it's boring, and a waste of time. That's their opinion, and they are surely within their rights to voice it here, but I would ask, "Why would anyone continue to read something that is boring, and a waste of time?" Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and says, "READ THIS, OR I'LL SHOOT!" When I find a TV show on my television that bores me, I switch channels. There is an abundance of other subjects that are available on Class Racer that will inform, entertain, and educate... all one needs to do is click on them; nobody has to read this thread if it bores them.

Having said that, and I don't think there's anything in that paragraph that you would disagree with, doesn't it make you wonder why there are SO MANY posts here???? Somebody likes it... Somebody thinks it's worth discussing. A lot of "somebodies," apparently.

As far as NHRA/IHRA goes, I don't run a Class car right now, and the "quality" of people that I would be talking to at the "HRA's", don't have the perspective beyond "the company line" to entertain "outside the box" ideas from non-NHRA/IHRA racers, especially (given their financial state of affairs,) ideas that are going to cost them money (no matter, how little.)

No, I am sure that the first question he'd ask would be, "What is your membership number and what is your Permanent Number," as if that information would have ANY bearing on the quality of my suggestion(s).

Only by hearing it from a variety of sources, will this idea ever gain traction, and this forum is probably the best place for dispensing the kind of logic that is part and parcel of a worse red light rule.

Popular opinion will get this rule passed, eventually, if, indeed, it ever gets passed.

Talking to an Nhra/IHRA "official," who's relegated to answering the phones, isn't going to get it done. He's likely, already afraid for his job, and suggesting to his superiors a new rule that not only, won't make the national organization one thin dime, but will COST money to implement, isn't going to "enhance" his employment status at all... especially, at a time like this

It's not the right time for that methodology, I'm afraid. Maybe it will never be.

In the meantime, demonizing someone who is trying to help enact a rule that would make things more fair for everyone, and would hurt NO ONE probably isn't the best course of action...

My 2-cents.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Genius, I am the wrench behind Kevin Cradduck's orange and white 69 Camaro 427/425 AA/SA. We have two class wins, and an overall runner up at St. Louis, and two class wins at Bowling Green, all in AA/SA.

Not that there's really any reason for me to justify anything to or for you.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, how are you helping enact a rule? Have you contacted the Div tech people? They can tell you who to ask for, that is not afraid of loosing his job, and are nice helpful people. O got another part number Bow Tie block approved a little over a year ago. Got it approved in less that two weeks. No message board carping, just calm friendly phone calls and one letter. Painless as can be. Won't happen here. Try to approach it like an adult.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Do you see any difference in the difficulty in getting a new part number approved and changing a 48 year-old rule that affects the way business is done on the starting line for EVERYONE... ??????????????

Apples and oranges. How much did it cost NHRA to approve that block?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Now I see how our president got elected.Feed the mushrooms enough ***** and eventually they start believing whatever you spoon out.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Typical Fernandez post; full of insults and impertinent information and NOT ONE WORD about the subject matter of the thread.

If you spent half as much time trying to understand the reasons why the current rule is a bad one, MAYBE you'd figure out that you're on a sinking ship...

Maybe not... You've had a lot of opportunities to figure this out, but are so busy thinking up new and clever ways to insult people, coherent thought doesn't have a chance...

Who do you think benefits from a post like that, Ed? It surely doesn't do YOUR image on this board any good.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Image? Ed don't need no stinking image! He just wants to talk! Jim


.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Yes, he should be petitioning NHRA, but by posting about it in this forum he's already got one convert (that is if he's not levelling.) Maybe if he gets enough people to agree with him there might be enough votes to get it changed, kind of like all the people who wanted to get rid of deep staging.


-Toby

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Toby a cool picture of your mom . i only hope your mom and my mom are discussing racing . (tie)

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I insult and make fun of people who deserve it.You're a lonely old guy with nothing else to do but instigate a topic that will not affect you one bit.You're what's known in the present
world as an "advocate".That stands for meddling idiots who stick their noses into peoples lives and impact it without any consequences to themselves.If you were a current of future S/SS racer I would have engaged in a civil discussion.But you're a nosey old busy body,nothing more nothing less.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Gee, Ed, what am I supposed to think when I race my bracket car and a quicker car goes to the winner's circle because I red lighted, depriving him of his chance to red light???

Oh; I forgot, Ed said it won't affect me one bit.

Good... LOL!!!

You are amazing. Facts have no meaning for you.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'm not demonizing you for having an opinion and expressing it. I AM demonizing you for being an instigator and not having the balls to take care of business yourself! By your own admission, and to paraphrase the above comments, your insignificant to NHRA or IHRA. It appears you not only refuse to participate in S/SS racing (now or in the future), but you aren't even a MEMBER of either organization??? Are you frickin' kidding me?
So not only are you not a part of this group of racers, you don't even belong to the organization which you are complaining about!!! Am I right? Did I misunderstand something? Why don't you go to www.naacp.org and tell them how things should be?

True, you can post here all you want. But like I said many pages ago, so can a five year old as there is NO criteria for posting on this forum.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Or may be he could find a nice bracket racing forum and start all over again because like so many others have said shut up already this is a stock/super stock board and has nothing to do with you!!!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

4 Inch,
This is the section where the fans can participate too.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Well do you as a stock racer want the fans to make your rules, well i would bet most wouldn't so that being said you can reread my post above, Thanks 4.25inch.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

at least you can tell the 5 yr old "it just is, because I said so" and they will shut up

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'm a bracket racer and Stock racer, I'd like to see the change for the better of the sport for all. As you can see that NHRA put Cross Talk in the tree so that both of the racers leave off the same bulb for Box racers. Well it should be adjusted for the foot brakers, both racers make an attempt at the tree before a winner is decided.

Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Well I am a member of both organizations, I am a current Stock racer and former and current National Record Holder, I own a SS car and I say his reasons are valid and I believe Bill to be a qualifying member of this community. As such I believe he has the right to DISCUSS anything he wants within the bounds of the rules of the forum. If some of you want to look like you capable of having a thought on this then you will have to come up with more of a rebuttal than "shut up" or "you aren't a member". You guys should really be embarrassed that you can't do better than that. I ask you, why are you so against Bill and his discussion of this idea? No name calling, (I know it will be hard for you) just a good reason for why he can't discuss a thought on a discussion board? Also, how would this proposed rule, if enacted, HURT you? Or anyone for that matter. Why do you feel the need to "demonize" or talk down to Bill like a "5 year old"? I just don't get why some of you have gone viral against this man! Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

To answer the last question/sentence - They are "No Class" people!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I don't care it the person in the next lane has the biggest p.o.s., I still respect him as a racer, I think that it's a good attitude to have. Your "no class" is B.S.!

It amazes me that their are people that race, that have no clue to why things are the way they are. Pre-stage lights are exactly what they mean, "pre" staged. It is just to let you know that the starting line is close. Deep staging, is just a matter of still having your front wheels on the starting line, just not engaging the "pre" lights any longer. People who don't understand, seem to be the ones that complain so that certain ways that other people race should be jepardized, by the rules being put into place as to restrict the out of box thinkers.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

So when'e the last time YOU raced with us "no class" racers?Or are you a keyboard racer?And Casey,the reason deep staging was banned was to stop all the game playing on the starting line.
And good point about who should have a say in the rules WE have to race under.I wouldn't think thre fans and nosey bodies should have a say in the process.
If you guys don't like the rule let NHRA know in emails and phone calls.And take Mr Nosey Body with you.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Been a member of NHRA since the late '50's.

Don't know how my mailing them subscription money every year for National DRAGSTER would affect my ability to think clearly about an obviously unfair rule...

But, you can't even see what there is about treating two cars differently is unfair.

When you've got comprehension problems of that magnitude, anything is possible...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Mr Nosey Body,tell it to NHRA in a letter and or an email.Then get back to us with the
results.Can you comprendo that??????

Quote old Bill:Been a member of NHRA since the late '50's

That and $2 will get you on the subway in NY.

Re: Chapter 15???
 

When I responded to this note, I was in the middle of something else, and said some things I shouldn't have said. I apologize for having said those things,

What I meant to say was this:

As regards your comment, "I insult and make fun of people who deserve it."

Why do I deserve to be insulted and laughed at? For suggesting ways to make drag racing more fair for everybody? They say, "No good deed goes unpunished." Is this your effort to make that saying come true?

Your comment, "You're a lonely old guy with nothing else to do but instigate a topic that will not affect you one bit."


I don't know how much you know about my social life, but "lonely," I am not. As far as, " nothing else to do but instigate a topic that will not affect you one bit," I have told you repeatedly that the rules for Bracket racing as regards the starting line, are EXACTLY the same as Class Racing rules, so, when I race (and, I do) it WILL affect me. If it didn't, I wouldn't be here. I have told you THAT, repeatedly too... don't you listen?


You commented, "You're what's known in the present world as an "advocate."
I think that's an apt description. The online business dictionary says, "Advocate... A person who supports a cause and exercises his right to be heard..."

That's me, all right!


RE: Your comment, " If you were a current of future S/SS racer I would have engaged in a civil discussion.But you're a nosey old busy body,nothing more nothing less."

No, I am a person who suffers under the same, universal, unfair set of rules that entail having an undue share of red light jeopardy foisted upon me, just like almost everybody else (cars that are never first-to-leave, excepted.) You, are a masochistic, "stomp me again; I LIKE IT" racer who has no concept of fairness or parity. Just because YOU have no objection to getting kicked in the face over and over again, doesn't mean that everybody enjoys that kind of abuse. Think of somebody besides yourself for a change...

There's no excuse for name-calling and abusive behavior on this BB. People who stoop to that, just admit intellectual bankrupty... Check out the "subject" line, up top...

Re: Chapter 15???
 

Get this through your thick skull.It affects me as a Stock racer.It affects you as a BRACKET RACER.You can't race at Englishtown and other national/divisional events because you are a BRACKET RACER,not a CLASS RACER.If I wanted to bracket race my car and the rule was changed in favor of your agenda then whoop de doo,maybe I'd
steal a race or two in the next 50 years.
Like I and others have said,if you want the rule changed in BRACKET RACING,call or email NHRA.But you shouldn't speak for racers who are in a different series than you race in,if you even race any more.
Get it now?????????

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Mr. Dedman, stop justifying yourself. You owe no one, especially some ignorant, vulgar Chatty-Cathy doll impersonator, an explanation of yourself.

If I recall, you furnished some interesting insight on Turboglides and 4 speed Hydros. That by itself qualifies you as someone worthy of listening to.

Worst foul start WILL prevail.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

[QUOTE=Ed Fernandez;257972
Quote old Bill:Been a member of NHRA since the late '50's

That and $2 will get you on the subway in NY.[/QUOTE]

That was in response to THIS: "So not only are you not a part of this group of racers, you don't even belong to the organization which you are complaining about!!! Am I right?"

No. You are not.

Re: Chapter 15???
 

You mean there is a different result if you red light in a Class race than if you red light in a Bracket race?

Funny; I thought you lost both races.... right then.

How is this different?

How do you call it "stealing a race" when your infraction is less than your competitor's, in breakouts OR red lights???

Same deal.... worse is worse.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bunkster, Ed is one one of the nicest man you would want to meet, I don't think that name calling does you justice, probably does the opposite. Mr Dedman you've done a great job debating your point but we've milked this as long as we could, the cow is out of milk. I think for argument sake, I should have ask another questions such as " all you faster car drivers, do you feel distracted when your opponent leaves before you do,how many times have you red light because of this problem" I can remember a long time ago having a Toyota Corolla leave on me with his 21 second dial in and yours truly with a 69Chevelle 427cu 10:90 dial and can say that it I was quite distracted by his leave(I had one of my best lights 5:10). This was a King of the Hill race many years ago.lol Mr Dedman send a letter to NHRA and then see if you get a responce, let us know when you hear from them. I know that I've sent approximately five letters to NHRAand nevr even heard from them ever. I know that they must have it well filled in their file 9. I'd love to hear what Mr Dirt would have to say about this subject(Aka Bret Kepner) he's just one of the expert on the subject, Mark Yaccavone would be another with some incredible insights on being first to leave(he has a Wally to prove it). Billy Nees also could set some light on the subject. Claude

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

LOL! Thanks, Mr. Bunkster. That (Chatty Cathy) is pretty funny.... :)

I guess the Captain's 3-speed didn't turn out to be the be-all, end-all I'd hoped it would.

Those Powerglide converters are just amazing...