Re: Original hemi dart information
 

John "FINESPLINE"

And many shots too!!!
If I could only go back to 1968, and use my 'then' college trust fund to purchase a couple of cars.
Amazing, how many of them became available in late 1969 and 1970,
right after the Winternationals.
$5500 was just about the going price for a non Big Name car.

pc

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul
WHOA!!! Hold on there Bubba-Louie!!!! The Ed Miller car is NOT mine, I am just doing a bunch of work on it for the owner. At this time I am not at liberty to say what car number it is, or the paint scheme that's going on it, because it is not mine. Sorry!!!

JSL Racing
To return one of these cars back to it's 68-70 status is like walking a tightrope. Most of them went through many modifications, some alot more than others. Remember these things were just workhorses back then & collectability was nowhere in the picture. Very few cars survived uncut in some way or another. When a person wants to restore one of these things, first off you have to decide from what era you want it to resemble, because they changed alot through the years of racing. You don't want to remove anymore of the original car than you absolutely have to, because you have to keep as much of the cars identity as possible. Each car is different in how much you gotta replace. So it is a balancing act, & ultimately it is up to the owner how he wants it done. But, yes,rust free parts cars are a absolute asset when restoring a Hurst car. When you think of it tho, just about any car that requires any kind of resto. work will require some sort of parts car.

M68
You keep on blowing me away with your pix. HOLY CRAP Man.!!! Very Cool!!!! Keep them coming!!!!. Even after I find the history on my car,(if that ever happens) this thead will continue due to the input & interest yous' guys are putting into it. Well Done!!!

Liteweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Finespline
If Paul finds the history to my car, I will come down there & take him out his favorite Italiano resturant, and I live in Mid West Canada , but he's going to have to put up with me for the weekend.

Lightweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl.. is your car completely back halfed or just tubed to the frame rail and the springs moved in.. you have a ton of rubber under yours.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

It retains all it's original fiberglass & sheet metal, including the frame rails & location of them. It did have a set of sheetmetal inner tubs only installed in the 70's sometime, but they have since been removed & a set of original inner tubs from a parts car have been put in, up against the frame rails. There is a filler installed between the inners & the outers.
Ya, I like the big rear tire thing on these things, & it hooks HARD too!!!.

Liteweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

LOL------Daryl, I have never met Paul but I am sure that he knows where to go. I believe he lives somewhere within 45 minutes of NYC. Honestly I believe Paul will find the information you seek on your car.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

This just sounds illegal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD0GU...eature=related

Whose is it?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Charlie A, that car is supposed to be Bob Lambeck's Dart


Daryl, have you looked into any connection maybe of your car to one of Max Hurley's Dart's?


Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks, Daryl, Paul, etc. I'm just sharing what I've found on the 'net over the years. Speaking of which, is this the same Ed Miller Barracuda you're working on...or a different car?

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8...rracingent.jpg

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4...ndmartin02.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4...lythekid01.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6...formance01.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5707/bearacuda01.jpg

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5733/mr4speed.jpg


M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

How much does a modified car hurt the sale value. Would a tubbed car still draw as much as a leaf spring car if it was original?

Anyone know if any of these cars still have the original engine. How would you know if it was. Did Chrysler affix any numbers to the block to correspond with the car it was going in?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl,
I have my favorite Italian Ristorante' picked out.
And yes, my favorite dish...........GIADA.

I do think I have to research New Jersey and Pennsylvania for possible connections to your car.
There seems to be some lack of representation around ATCO for a Hemi Dart.

M68,
That Ed Miller SS/A car paint scheme is from 1970 and up. The earlier paint scheme SS/B was much nicer, and the car had Cragars all around.
Also, had Stevenson Garage on front fender, and Syracuse Region
Plymouth Dealers on back quarter.

Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jason, i think you have asked a very valid question and one that could go both ways in regards to is it worth or more desireable uncut or modified.

an example here is Ken Montgomery's Barracuda, i think that car is most desireable and valuable just the way it is. there are others too like the Red Light Bandit, the Fast Eddie car, even Daryl's that i think are best left as they are.

one car i think that could be better returned back to stock chassis set-up would be the Larry Griffith Dart if the plan is to keep it restored as that car. i liked it when it was all black, but now that it's got the Griffith paint back on it i think it looks weird, Larry didn't race it that way. interestingly though i think the 4-speed Landy car is just fine the way it is even though it's not the way it was when Landy raced it, at least the rear suspension. it still looks "right" where as the Griffith car to me again just looks weird for some reason.

one of the things that has bothered me for years concerning the C.O.P.O. Camaro's is that everyone wants to return those cars back to stock and destroy any history that they had as racecars. those cars in my opinion are the most boring things ever in restored stock condition, as racecars though i think they are very interesting. i could be wrong here but i think the collector market and values ruined what was alot of good historical racecars or those that had extensive racing histories.


Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Hi davezinn, If your interested in the 69 COPO camaros restored to their racing heritage------go to google / Vitar camaro Real COPO car restored to its racing days. I know the car well and it came out of Brooklyn, N.Y.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

This thread just gets better and better. Love the old photos.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

while looking for the Vitar Camaro i ran across this,

http://www.cars-on-line.com/48138.html

interesting the things you find when you are looking for something else.


Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

That tribute car is awesome..just like how I would like one..

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul & Daryl, In CARS ON LINE there is a factory 68 Hemi Dart -----Ex Bob Lambeck car restored in Big Lake, Minnesota------asking $315000.--------------John

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

i found both the clone and that car this afternoon, they are listed in different sections?

http://www.carsonline-ads.com/colsit...ostingID=45399

Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

John "Finespline",
They do not show restoration photo's or any other confirmation.
What gives.
It was a first run Feb 1968.
Yes, but who purchased it. And who raced it, before Bob ran it in Pro/Stock.
What SS/B car was it?
pc

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

That's a question that is really hard to answer. The market for these Hurst cars is very small, as they are not for everyone. What's an original untouched, as raced, car worth???? For the very few people that have them, they can ask just about anything they want, because of the rarity of this kind of car. Will they get it???? The only people that will pay the kind of price these will demand, know the historical significance of them. They are not for the weak of wallet.
What I call a "Pedigree" car, Dick Landy, Ronnie Sox, Arlen Vanke etc also has a very tall pricetag, & these don't seem to be bothered by the amount of work that has been done to them to bring them back.But they must be documented cars. Again, there is a very small market for these as most have landed up included in very expensive private collections.That's where my old Landy 4 spd. Hemi Dart went.
Next is the current legal SS/AH cars. You certainly don't see many of these actively racing anymore but there are a few left. Chuck Commela still races his, & he is the original owner too!! These cars have been modified so extensively to stay competitive in todays ranks, that they are best to be left as they are (in my opinion only). To restore one of these would not be economically feasible.
As far as the rest of them, the variables are just about infinate.It all depends on what you would pay for a certain car that you want.

As far as the original engines in these cars, there is no way of verifying them through serial numbers, because the cars were delivered to Hurst separately from the engines. The only way of varifying an original engine to the body would be through documentation from owners. Yes, as far as I know,there are a few with their original elfunt still in them, but they are few.

Liteweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul
The Giada dish might be a little pricey. We'll have to share that one.!!!!!

I never said this was going to be an easy one to find. With the amount of renewed interest these cars have generated in the past few years, you'd think it would be alot easier, but it's not. What is not helping is, that with every year that goes by, the frequency of old racers dying is getting greater, & with that, alot of history & info!!!!

M68
I agree with Paul, I think the Ed Miller car's pix is from the early 70's mostly due from the size of the wheel tire combo. No, I don't believe this is the same car that's in my shop because it's missing the spoiler on the deck lid, & it still has the 68 markers in it.

Dave
No, I haven't looked into the Max Hurley Darts. I am currently on the trail of the "WildFire" Dart as there are similarities that I've found.

Liteweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, stop it! You're making me hungry! I don't know what that dish is comprised of but I bet it's delicious! :D

Paul, Daryl: Regarding Ed's Barracuda, yes, I realize the photo is from the 1970s; I was just wondering if it was the same car.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1...rssaacuda2.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5...rronejune1.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/969...garagecuda.jpg

M68

P.S. Who was the driver of this prototype BO29 Barracuda?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I know it's not a Hemi A-body but it's just too nice of a pic not to post.

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2...lebackdart.jpg

And one more 440-powered Dodge A-Body along with its bigger brother. :)

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7...ingnationa.jpg

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2...knownhrm05.jpg

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Question: what do these two Darts have in common?

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/241...accallum01.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1162/friel.jpg

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

M68,
I think the photo of the BO-29 Cuda proto-type is from
the AHRA 69' Finals at Tulsa.
Check out the front bumper,,,,it is not on the car.
Car classed in B/MR.
Woodward Garage lettering on rear section, maybe Ted Spehar,
Dick Housey or Ralph Costa?
Check out the rear slicks,, Firestone Drag 500 and Fenton mags,
a possible Arlon Vanke connection.

paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, Daryl, and others...You guys know that Steve O'Neill is still looking for the whereabouts of his uncle Gene O'Neill's '68 Hemi Dart (Gene's Speed Shop) that was in the Worcester, Mass area and campaigned on the eastern seaboard NHRA tracks and in Canada for only a couple yrs. when new. Steve has found (in Quebec) and restored Gene's earlier '65 Coronet A990 Hemi to flawless original race condition (Flintstone Charger car). Steve would really like to find uncle Gene's Dart.... Anyone? Thanks. WJ:)

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

There the same car John bought car from Don.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

This thread has just become mind blowing. Thanks to all of you guys for the info and photos of these cars.
The popularity of these cars are growing and growing. It is really taking off in the scale model car community that Davezinn and I come from. largly due to the new Revell model kit of the LO23 Dart. You guys are helping us "Little" car builders out a ton.

My interests in the Mancini/Gratiot Yellow and red Dart are because I have a 1/25th scale project in the works of this car. So I never get too many photos of that car. So thanks for your help on that one.

I do not know if any of you are model car builders. If not. It is not a kids game anymore. Most model car builders, these days, are from their late 30s to early 60s and they are as serious about building these models as you guys are with the real cars.(Us model car builders call that 1:1 scale. LOL)
I have been building a serious business around producing aftermarket model car parts. This thread has been helping me out in the development on new parts for the new Revell 1/25th model car kit of the LO23. So thanks for your openness with your info, photos and this message board to us little car builders.

Daryl
I love the Fat Tire look your car has. Are your rear springs in the stock location or are they in boarded to be in line with the rear subframe?

Matt

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Matt,

I know it sounds crazy, but imagine if someone could put all those cars
together from 68' with the original looks, in the scale model.

I wonder what a complete set of the 155 cars or so would be worth??

M68,
On page 47, post #467.
The car in the far lane is the "Deadly Dart" Dart.
Biscayne Dodge, Miami, Florida

The front car,,,? Alan Carroli (SS/B)

pc

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl
I love the Fat Tire look your car has. Are your rear springs in the stock location or are they in boarded to be in line with the rear subframe?

Matt



I've always loved the look of a nice rear end!!!!!
The springs are inline with the rails

Liteweight
Daryl

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

They're both sweet!!! Unfortunately I don't have any video of the Dart when Don owned it, but I will always enjoy watching the video of the car (under John's ownership of it), during John's 100ft + long wheelstand enroute to the 9.14 I wrote about earlier in this thread....

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Cuda-Head,

I'll list the 'Fab 5 Cuda's' from Pennsylvania.

1) Jack Werst, SS/BA (The #2 Cuda built) (Sox & Martin got the #1 car)
Yardley, Pa

2) Bill Stiles, SS/BA (Set the first SS/BA record with an 11.06 at Island Dragway, NJ July 68')
York, Pa

3) Ken Montgomery
Roslyn, Pa
*) Ken's first car was a SS/BA car. Had it for 3 weeks when it rolled over, after it was hit by Dean Nicopolis' 1967 Hemi car. on the
return road at, I think Atco, NJ. ( I have to check my records )
*) The second car was/is the 4-speed SS/B car.

4) Tom Myl, SS/BA
Coraopolis, Pa

5) Thomas & Updyke, SS/BA
Tyronne, Pa

Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Ken Montgomery only had one Barracuda, but had 2 '65 A990 Belvederes. The one that was totaled on the return road (at Indy I believe) was Jack Werst's original car.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Here's a close-up view of the 'state of the art' :) clearancing on a Dodge Dart.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5...tisserie05.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/8...iaprimer10.jpg

Pix are from the restoration of this factory original Hemi Dart.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3...ld04medium.jpg

Here's a photo of the car the day it arrived at the resto shop.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8315/hemidart03.jpg

Anyone recognize this car?

More pix and details here:

http://www.moparsbymosher.com/projec...t/hemidart.htm

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Give that man a Hemi spark plug! :D You're absolutely correct.

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5804/friel2.jpg

Anyone remember seeing this car? I did.

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul-
It would be worth what someone would pay. LOL! That would be a very cool project. It would just take a model decal company to make all of the decals. With this new kit. There are a couple that are starting to pop up.
I have two in the works right now. One is a modern SS/AH but it is a made up one. Basically what mine would look like.
My other one is the Ron Mancini/ Gratiot Dart Yellow and red one.
I have a couple of other ones in mind, too. But I have so many other models I want to build. If you saw the upstairs of my house. I have more unbuilt model kits then any hobby shop. and I keep adding to the pile.
Matt

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks Daryl, You know. As soon as I win the state lottery. I am going to build a Clone. Awe heck, wile I am dreaming. Might as well dream big. I will just buy a real one. LOL!
I know that if I did. I would drive it.
Matt

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mopar68
Havent seen that car in a long time the last time it was in a garage. It had no motor or trans in it.
Dennis

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Also John bought the GTX brand new.