Re: Crate Motor Class
 

As many here have said before. Stock isn't broke.Stock doesn't need fixing.participation at the div level is strong,and there are racers looking for spots open at every natl. Stocker racers aren't snobs. They are just proud of what they have built. They have really helped us. Did I EVER think I would have so much money in such a slow car? Hell no..but I'm past the pain now. ..so grab a credit card and get NHRA legal. ...we're waiting. ...

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

When I built my car everything around here was IHRA, I could basically run every division 9 race without leaving my state. Closest NHRA race at the time was Charlotte which is about 5 hours from me and ofcourse it was a National event so you had to go to a division race to be able to enter Charlotte, closest division race was Bristol at around 7 hours. Point is I didn't even consider building a CM car because of the reasons everyone has said plus the fact you were also limiting the people you could sale it to if you ever wanted to. Why go that far into a build and stop a couple thousand short of making it a car that could race anywhere.
I really do hate it for you guys I honestly do but to me it would be more of a slap in the face than the factory cars when they were introduced into the regular classes. I for one like many others will welcome anyone who comes out to race but you're going to need to switch your combo. If NHRA ever did approve these cars I would still welcome you all with open arms but I would probably be pissed lol.
Y'all say look at from your point of view but maybe you should do the same and look at from the point of view of the people who spent the money and went through the trouble of getting the hard to find parts.

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Tony, throwing at temper tantrum, like a two year old, and assaulting peoples' character, on a public forum, is not going to win you any support or make you any friends. All it does is show your lack of maturity.
I have been following this thread from the beginning and no one is interested in accommodating your IHRA combination or any other IHRA combination in the NHRA classes.
Someone has already pointed out what your options are. I am going to give you one more.
The NHRA has a process by which you can apply to have certain parts made legal for certain combinations. I suggest you try that route as you are flogging a dead horse here.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

The reason I built an IHRA vehicle was an easy one at the time. Just over 11 years ago when I got my license. I wanted something to drive to high school with and race on the weekends. My options were pretty limited for availability in Ontario and for what my budget was being only 16. My cheapest option for something rear wheel drive that had or could easily be made V8, that was easily available, that wasn't junk or a fortune around here was my 96 S10. Immediately put a mild 350 in it and drove it to school and to the track on the weekends and ran bracekts. Did that for a couple years and wanted to go faster, so I made it a dedicated track vehicle and made some changes to go faster and continued running brackets. My dad has bracket raced since the late 70s and has always been a big follower of class racing. So I grew up loving to watch stk/ss at association races or nearby IHRA national events.

At the time we were surrounded by IHRA tracks with 2 national events within 1.5hrs and the closest NHRA national or divisional was 6+hrs away. With a local association, I wanted to run class badly so I looked at my options. Nothing against the 4.3 guys but after only driving it with the small block I didn't want to run a V6 so it wasn't going to be a natural stocker. Being entry level and just finishing an apprenticeship, Super Stock GT was out of my budget for just trying to get into class racing. For me the easiest thing I could do was piece together an affordable crate combination to get my feet wet. So thats what I did, slowly pieced together something over a couple of seasons and was able to make it work running a few tenths under.

I don't the have the unlimited budget like many do. I started racing my truck at 16 and with lots of help from my dad we built it to what it is today. I didn't want an import or run "street car" type racing, I wanted to run class. It was the easiest way for me to get into it. I could of stuck with just running regular brackets but its not what I wanted. So now I'm back to making decisions again. I either step up and run Super Stock GT or just go back to regular brackets. Being bit by the class bug I'll probably step up because I don't think I can ever get out of it now. I just wanted to share why I built what I did. It was the easiest way for me to get involved at an entry level for not being around the muscle car days.

Allen Sawicki

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Thank you CrateCamaro...
You don't get things done by being a Wall Flower.
Keep pushing until you get results!

My Dad taught us about persistence, work, especially to think.
Passion to succeed came from inside if you were going to survive ...!
He had his horrible side too like too much alcohol, mean and abusive.
But had his kind days and kept an eye out for us.
Like a home to come too when times were bad..and they did get bad.
For some reason would never come to any of my races. That hurt !

Last Dec 10th he passed away..
It was a tough end of year celebration!
Somehow it makes you stronger!

FWIW we are having a Good Conversation !
To make it clear I have never bashed anyone or any Racing Body or Association.
Have been interceptive, professional and polite in my responses.
Unlike some of the rude comments I have received.

I deeply respect the all the Automotive Associations.
They work their butts off to give us a platform to race.
Especially Refereeing rules that racers seem to find a nuance to.

The evolution and cost of Stock Eliminator has gone nuts!
Nobody bashed Bill Nees when he built his Dime Racers.
Yet racers are bashing others because they find more sensible ways to race.

PS, CM, GT were good solutions to extend the life of Stock.
NHRA had to create FI and FS Classes to meet a need.
NHRA does not have to invent anything to on-board these classes.

Regardless, adding any of the Classes did not kill IHRA or NHRA.
Some bone headed decisions did not help.

The NUMBER ONE Reason why Racers did not run IHRA ???
IHRA ran at 1/8th mile tracks.
It was the number one complaint on Class Racer why IHRA events were not attended.
This exacerbated the decisions that IHRA decided to take to survive.

At the Mike Carr S/SS TriState Meet at Mason Dixon.
The Southern Bracket Association Bracket Racers were bitterly complaining about having to run 1/8th mile.
Seems to be a huge pattern of expectations.
Though nothing wrong running 1/8th mile.

The BOTTOM LINE
IHRA failed because racers did not defend their sport !


Dan

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

You 2 ain’t getting ****. Done.
I think you 2 have it all wrong. Your begging and pleading for a miracle yet you keep insulting the people that are Class Racers
Don’t need no pure stock or crates motor
Nhra has SS modified for you crate boy. Add weight to your SS car cause that’s what it is in Nhra
Delusional Dan work on your car. Buy a car.
By the way my mustard is Frenches yellow.Nothin fancy
Crate Boy. Maybe ask Santa for some help

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

zzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

The number one reason I heard from guys not running IHRA was much reduced already lower purses for low car counts, which they always had. They had so few contingencies, most were for things most don't use. Winning, or just going rounds, did not pay what everyone was used to. Had to play musical decals. It was still 1/4 mile IHRA races around here when I quit going. I tried to run both a few years ago. Officials were very friendly, tech was pretty lax. Small rubber checks did it for me.

And, other than some bracket racers, few guys like 1/8th mile racing.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

ED on these very posts.
Racers posted often and outright they would not race 1/8th mile.
AND do understand. Even I prefer 1/4 mile.
Speaking for myself never experienced a rubber check from any racing association.

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

But, those guys weren't racing IHRA anyway. Back when I was running IHRA the car counts were always pretty good in Division 9. In my opinion the IHRA made too many changes that made the bracket racers happy and ran off the class racers.

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Why was there ever a Crate motor class?
Car Mfg's were selling crate motors and put money into the IHRA to help their marketing.
Are MFG's putting money in NHRA to market Crate Motors?
Want to have a class... come up with MFG cash.
Now in unison can we all say COPO, DRAG PACK and what ever Ford calls it today...

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Billy found cars that are in the system to my knowledge he never once asked NHRA to add cars or classes so he could build what he wanted.

Apples and oranges to what you want done.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Everyone wants to push the easy button and make statements about OEM parts availability to justify why they made a decision to build a combination. Parts are out there, I don't care what combination you run. It takes a little more effort to find them, and they may not be local, and they may have a price tag too. That's where some of the abrasive comments come from, racers that made the effort to find the parts, and others that made a decision to go an easier path. Now that path has put them in a financial burden to compete within another organization. There is no doubt that it would be frustrating.

We build our cars to compete within the rules for the organization and tracks that are local to each of us. In my area the closest IHRA track is over 7 hrs away, you're not going to see me there to support it. IHRA tracks are not as popular in a general geographic area as some think. Bottom line, the amount of racers within a specific class to support a given track and/or organization will impact sustainability.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

COME ON that is not relevant !

Stock/Super Stock made so many changes over the years because the racers wanted them.

Todays Stockers are a whole lot quicker than SS was on the 80's.
SS'er are more like yesterdays Modified Production

Fuel Injected Classes were added because FI became a new issue.

Factory Stock cars were added !!
They are so quick they could compete with yesterdays ProStockers.

Classes were added because of a need !

As for easy button everyone looks for it!
That is how S/SS and Class Racing morphed over the decades.

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

NHRA has made changes to the stock an super stock classes over the years. Most of the changes have been either safety related or changes NHRA made to make it easier for the tech people to check the cars and engines and keep them compliant. There have also been some rule changes to help the older cars with newer parts that have been getting very hard to find. They are also allowing some better parts in the engines to help with reliability which helps with safety and oil down delays an saves the racers money in the long run.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, I explained once, rubber checks came from the small rural tracks that had to pay IHRA up front to hold one of their races, then did not draw enough cars to cover expenses.
After hearing from the track owners (when calling about my checks) about their money losses, I just tore up the checks. Weren't big enough checks to make or break me. They cut prize money due to very low car counts. Thankfully I have a car that could run with either association. I only wasted part of one summer trying to support them. It was obvious to me it was a dying deal.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Actually down here in the southeast the fields were steadily growing each year. Last year the car counts were the best in many years. But still not what the NHRA races were getting.
I always tried to shy people away from building an IHRA only class car. It just didn't make sense to build a car that could not run both sanctions or have an engine for both sanctions. IHRA could not have survived as long as it did with just the IHRA only classes. Most of the racers in the SE were NHRA and IHRA competitors. I ran as many events as I could in my division and I for one will miss the IHRA races. They were very user friendly and fun. I liked the 1/8th mile just as much as the 1/4.

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Anybody keeping a log book had data to dial from 1/8th mile. Easier to drive the stripe at lower MPH. Just not as much fun to me. What they had around here, I don't remember what number division they called it, were 1/4 mile. Never saw car counts that low at any NHRA track.
Those that went were mostly some of the same guys that ran NHRA around here. They had an IHRA National event here at Tulsa, at that one I saw some cars I did not know, running some of "those other" classes. Tulsa, thankfully, did not stay IHRA very long.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Actually, the faster the speeds, the more distance covered per time. .01 at 102 mph is 17.9 inches, whereas .01 at 128 mph is 22.5 inches. Although you are traveling at a greater speed, you have more time to judge the approach rate, and a greater margin of error in driving the stripe.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Never mind

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, why would anybody want to bash me for being sensible enough to build a car that can run IHRA (at one time), NHRA and Brackets?
I'll admit to being cheap AND crazy but I'm NOT stupid.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Being bright enough to build a car that can run with either association is no reason to bash anybody.

Expecting a large racing association to add unneeded classes just for a small group is something else. Give it up.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Hey Dan, NHRA is not going to add more classes when they can't control what they have. Build that old stocker you have.
P.S. Leave Billy alone.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Billy;
Didn’t say anyone bashed you!
Just the opposite..in fact you just described me too :D:
You are sweet gentle person who would never offend even a mouse!:eek:

Bob Bender...!
I hope Billy Nees Nickel Stocker kicks every $100,000 FS Stocker out there!
He has an advantage because his car is so slow it’s shawdow falls asleeps at the line!
Then latches on the faster car to catch up!

From an earlier Challenge..I bet Billy or you Bob or any other Stocker Racer $10 they cannot beat my Pure Stocker!

Pure Stock Still Rules!
Just like Billy Nees cars.....it is affordable!

Now where was that other conversation on CR where Stock Racers were complaining that they do not like running Bracket Racing because of their sensitive engines?:confused:

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

As this thread goes on I am really beginning to compare IHRA Crate Motor and Pure Stocker guys to the equivalent of a person who smokes pot. They are constantly sitting around trying to convince everyone who will listen why it should be legal as they stare at you all glassy eyed ..lol

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Woof! I think Pettigrew might just be on to something!

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I bracket race my stocker from time to time and it can handle it ... and most of the pure stockers can be converted over to stockers or just run street/11.50 at the local track .My stocker can run the pro/9.00-12.00 or super pro 7.00-12.00 brackets ...Just not the street class/bracket . And with all the after market stuff you can run now your half way to a crate motor anyway .

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Lmfao!!!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

It's sad, all these pages bashing the thought of crate motor cars coming too play from all these "old guys". It's clear you could care less about the future of the sport you helped build over the last 30-40yrs(thank you btw) , if you did you would welcome evolution and a cost effective way for the younger generation to get into the sport of classracing, isn't that ONE of the attractions of the crate motor class? To diminish someone's intelligence because they don't build a NHRA legal car but now want to play in ththe NHRA because their sanctioning body is no longer around is more of an elitist attitude vs what the spirit of classracing is. If my father didn't raise my brother and I on the idea of building a car within the guidelines of rules (aka a classcar), I'd gladly go play with the freak show cars like everyone else my age is doing and save thousands and thousands of $$. And to give me credentials on this , I'm 33 yrs old with a AA/SA 69 camaro and a SS/JA 68 Camaro...that yes I own and built.... (felt the need to put that last sentence to avoid any negative comments thinking I'm a "high , glassy eyed" crate motor guy chiming in)

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They love crate motor cars, as long as they cost over $100K.

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We need to install a like button

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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the factory stock guys allowed to put a different year engine in their cars now? How is that not the same as "Stock GT".

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Only for the Showdown. My understanding is that they will not be able to run in this configuration in Stock Eliminator.

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Only for the shootout races. No longer a part of stock.

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Yeah this Thread is like the Class Racer Vs Bracket Racer post.
Giving you grief with nonsense comments.

You made a comment about spending what you could to race.
To race people have to make sensible choices.

Pure Stock was a cost effective way for many to get back to racing Stock.
CM was a cost effective way to use current similar available engines.
GT was a cost effective way to use existing Engines in a similar body.
NHRA SS does it...but not Stock.
All affordable solutions or upgrades.

d

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If those classes are so good for the sport why was the participation so low? Why is the IHRA out of business?

Petition the IHRA to carry your classes in a big bracket only forum. Run it as a big combo. Cheap and fun for everyone. Why would they say no? You guys as racers take care of tech. Everyone wins.

The NHRA has too many classes in stock. We should go to 1 pound breaks and combine sticks and auto’s if they won’t do that, no reason to ask for anything else.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Todd;
You asked a "why" question that was answered dozens of time.
If NHRA had too many classes how come they added FS?
What do you mean by too many classes?
Who determines that number?
What have you done to petition NHRA?

Nobody complained there were too many classes with FS?

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I would also like to know what this means, what exactly constitutes "too many classes"? How would a race weekend be better with the classes as you have described?

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Dan! No, it's not! There is no such thing as a "cost effective way of racing Stock" or Brackets or slot cars or turtles!
Anybody else? I'm on a roll.

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FS classes added more excitement and factory interest. It was a change to bring some excitement into a class that hadn’t changed in years. The new heads up XX class was born from it.

I mean less car classes for more heads up racing. I’m not sure who determines it. Just my opinion.

I don’t have to petition NHRA: I have a car that fits in a class they run.

Other then the guys that lost a place to race nobody is asking NHRA to add more classes.