CLASS RACER FORUM - Index Change

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- - Index Change (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=22523)

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 157955)

What's your fix? - all that stuff and more is bogus anyway, I suggested what I did because the only way to stop it, is to let everyone have it.

Most of the fast cars have been doing it for years anyway. Its already there.

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong (Post 157974)

One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

I finally told Greg, Marty, and NHRA how to identify a Canadian head when I worked for NHRA back in the very early 70's. No need to carry a head with you.

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Gullett (Post 157816)

Not to change or high jack the thread, but the AHRA rules are posted. From what I read, stock fuel tanks and street equipment must be retained in stock. Looks like both stock and super stock rules are different.
http://www.ahradragracing.com/STOCK.html
http://www.ahradragracing.com/RULES.html

Bob, the stock fuel tank deal won't bother me, because that's what I use anyway. However, after re-checking the NHRA rules, I'm feeling that AHRA just said that to abreviate the more spread out description that NHRA used for it's version of Street Equipment, and thus I expect them to be similar on that rule. If I'm wrong someone correct me, but all of the "HRA's" for the most part seem to be similar on the rules affecting our classes, with IHRA's acceptance of Crate motors being different?

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 157982)

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

They'll still consider Stock a problem. They do not want to tech for Stock at all. You're still having them tech with your "solution" and they don't want to. So your "solution" still requires them to tech, which they do not want to do, and only serves to further dilute the class.

Nice pun on the clutchless deal. As to my thoughts on clutchless transmissions in Super Stock, I'm not really in favor of it, although I have a couple of older friends it will help. The truth is, we all know people are using clutch assisted transmissions like a clutchless box. How do you fight it? That goes back to the rest of the problem with NHRA.

I'm not looking to "turn back the clock", as nice as that might be. It probably is neither possible nor feasible, as things stand. But we can make an effort to stop the progression. If we don't, we might just as well pack it in now and go bracket racing. If you keep diluting it, we might just as well never open the hood anymore.

Re: Index Change

The whole idea of "enhancements", and loosening of the rules starts when you are afraid to enforce the rules. Instead of a year off it has been the fashion to write a rule revision making the illegal parts legal. That is the sign of influence. (read that however you want).

The whole basis of S/SS has always been to take the rules and work within them to see how fast you can go. Not change the rules to pacify someone or some group who intimidates you.

Two "groups" have been solely responsible for this. Neither group can work on their own stuff enough to get under the index much less be fast. However, these two groups may have not been able to accomplish what they have if it weren't for the added support of the "hero worshipers" that think that anything their heros do is right.

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 157912)

I'm still not seeing this as a way to bring young people to Stock and Super Stock. After a year of the new cars in Stock and Super Stock, how many are being fielded by young people new to the sport? None that I've seen. There are a few driven by the "'kids" of Stock or Super Stock racers, but those "kids" were likely to race in Stock or Super Stock anyway.

Face facts. Stock and Super Stock are not cheap. That is one of the big reasons why we don't have new young people in the classes in large numbers. Young people can't afford it. And just because you bring in "new" cars that are just as expensive as "old" cars does not mean young people will suddenly be able to afford them.

Take stock in reality. We are the bastard step children of NHRA. They don't REALLY want to save our classes. We're a heavy load on their tech department, especially at the track. Face it, we complain a lot (most often, with good reason). When we generate a decent car count, we take up a lot of space and a lot of time.

NHRA keeps us around because we pay entry fees and buy crew passes. They keep us around because we pay membership fees and certification fees. They keep us around because we pay competition license and number fees. They keep us around because they take the lion's share of the contingency money posted for us. They keep us around because they make a killing off of stuff we buy at the track. NHRA doesn't love us, they don't want us, they don't really care about us, and they certainly are not concerned with "saving us".

The "new" cars are here because NHRA can make an extra dollar or two (or more) from them. They're here because NHRA gets paid to have them here. NHRA isn't going to make rules, change rules, and make allowances for anything they aren't getting paid for, or saving money on. NHRA is not the "benevolent" "non profit" governing body it once was, long ago. It is a for profit corporation, and the board is driven by the bottom line and how they can improve it.

I just do not see a bunch of twenty something or thirty something "new" racers showing up in these "new" cars in droves, or in any real numbers, to race Stock and Super Stock.

Your post hit the nail on the head with regards to why in my post #114 I wondered how our sadly departed NHRA founder "Mr. Wally Parks" would feel about this. Corporate greed has settled in, and unless something happens to make me feel otherwise (not likely), the days of our classes are being numbered, and our classes future with young lions such as Stock 608, and Dion, etc., are numbered.

I/we loyal (meager incomed Stock & Super Stock, if not all of us racers), sorely miss you WALLY....

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55 Chevy (Post 157581)

I may be one of those people who can't run the number. My car has not seen the track for nearly seventeen years and I have no idea where it will be this spring. Should it be the case that I can not run the number within my budget the car will be sold. I will never go bracket racing nor will I put it back on the street.

I am a 26 year old grad student, and like Mr. 55 Chevy, my (dad's) car had not seen the track in 17 years. After begging the old man for years and years he finally gave in and this was the first year we got it back out on my limited budget. I was ecstatic when I ran 11.teens on my 11.55 index (Still qualified way at the bottom of the pack). That was the best pass that car had ever seen and now I have an 11.25 index to deal with. Now I remember why dad had to quit racing back in the day and why I may have to quit already.

Re: Index Change

Dont quit now, we need all those mustangs we can get on the track. Good luck. Kip Martin

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urraco (Post 158107)

Dont quit now, we need all those mustangs we can get on the track. Good luck. Kip Martin

and...we need all the stick cars we can get on the track! :) ;)

Re: Index Change

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl (Post 157576)

Then only people this really will hurt are the guys who could run -.30 or less! They have just relegated about 20% of the cars to being bracket racers! There will be less and less cars at Divisionals and National Events. Some people can't see what is happening. Jim

I agree I just got into racing last year I bought a new car and worked and spent my *** off to get 30 under and now I'm going bracket racing. I think nhra will have 5 or 19 less stockers and super stocker at every race in2010 who's got the money to build a faster engine and if your only running 30 under like me you can barely afford to race anyway anyone want to buy a stocker that can't run the number?