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-   Stock and Super Stock (https://classracer.com/classforum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   A case for Tru-Start (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=64335)

Fireofficer5 11-19-2016 09:09 AM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
NMRA/NMCA run .500 pro tree handicap starts in some of their classes.

Dwight Southerland 11-19-2016 09:12 AM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
The fact is that everybody who has seriously raced under the existing rules knows that the car that leaves last has an advantage because of the red light rule. That's part of the reason that I worked to have high class cars. If you are serious about making Stock/Super Stock racing fair, then your arguments opposing Tru-Start are self-serving. Also, the current redlight rule is another minor factor that can discourage new participation. If you know that you will be at a disadvantage racing a car that you can afford, you won't race. It's like being invited to a poker game where the dealer will get to see your cards before he bets.


The only reason the current rule was created was that the original Chrondek timing system could not be programmed to duplicate what Tru-Start does. Then the guys with the most money and influence (usually the guys with the fast cars) have argued to keep it that way because of the build-in advantage.

MR DERBY CITY 11-19-2016 11:14 AM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
So glad that most of you guys weren't racing in the 60's......With your mind set we would still be using a FLAGMAN.......

Don Kennedy 11-19-2016 11:59 AM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Morris (Post 520157)
Bobby,
One of the fundamentals of drag racing is that you can not leave on a red light and therefore gain an advantage on your opponent. If you do, you've broken one of the basic rules in drag racing. In NHRA class racing you have committed a foul start that results in an immediate DQ. Your opponent at that moment is for all intents and purposes making a single run and is not subject to rules on redlights and breakouts. (I know you know all this)


Under the T-S system in a handicap race, if the slower car redlights he is NOT immediately DQd and can in fact win that round if the faster car redlights by a greater amount. In the case where the slower car goes on green and the faster car redlights, the faster car IS automatically DQd. If fairness is being sought using the T-S system, why does the slower car, in the last instance, get a second chance to win the round and the faster car doesn't (he's immediately DQd)? Sounds like the for-sure DQ is shifted to the faster car in a handicap race.


I'm not unloading on Bobby, it was just a place to get started.
I am against the tru start

HandOverFist 11-19-2016 12:14 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Only way I can see negating advantages for either is both cars leave at the same time and essentially run their own race. No more finish line tactics...best package wins and a red-light loses. Heads up there would be no change.

Carguy49 11-19-2016 12:19 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Dave Noll. I saw that Jody commented on his feelings about Tru-Start. I hope that Bob Gullett will chime in also. He and Charlene are probably getting settled in after their long trip from Pomona.

I have a question that might effect this thread. Out of the thousands? of rounds of racing each year, how many would be effected by Tru-Start??

I know some may say that my opinion doesn't count since I don't race anymore. I am still quite involved in the sport and help with the combo races at Pacific Raceways each year, so am good friends with many of the local stock and super stock racers. I have also met and talked with many from Div. 7.

Dwight Southerland 11-19-2016 12:35 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Morris (Post 520157)
Under the T-S system in a handicap race, if the slower car redlights he is NOT immediately DQd and can in fact win that round if the faster car redlights by a greater amount. In the case where the slower car goes on green and the faster car redlights, the faster car IS automatically DQd. If fairness is being sought using the T-S system, why does the slower car, in the last instance, get a second chance to win the round and the faster car doesn't (he's immediately DQd)? Sounds like the for-sure DQ is shifted to the faster car in a handicap race.
Not sure I follow the logic. The slower car does not get a second chance to win. Why is the slower car immediately disqualified when the faster car hasn't done anything? Both drivers should be judged on their individual performance, but in the current redlight rule, the driver of the faster car never gets judged if the driver of the slower car redlights.


I used to shoot pistols competitively. If I missed the mark on my trial, my opponent does not automatically win until he submits his performance. If he misses more than I do, then I win. What's the difference?

Mickey Whaley 11-19-2016 01:21 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
I played checkers back then the first loser LOST!

HR9121 11-19-2016 01:51 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carguy49 (Post 520222)
Dave Noll. I saw that Jody commented on his feelings about Tru-Start. I hope that Bob Gullett will chime in also. He and Charlene are probably getting settled in after their long trip from Pomona.

I have a question that might effect this thread. Out of the thousands? of rounds of racing each year, how many would be effected by Tru-Start??

I know some may say that my opinion doesn't count since I don't race anymore. I am still quite involved in the sport and help with the combo races at Pacific Raceways each year, so am good friends with many of the local stock and super stock racers. I have also met and talked with many from Div. 7.
I would have a guess and say less than 1%. If you looked at the numbers they might even be misconstrued, if I leave early and had an opponent dialed really fast they might see the win light and leave early to keep from sitting there banging on the 2-step.

Mile High 11-19-2016 02:16 PM
Re: A case for Tru-Start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Morris (Post 520157)
Bobby,



Under the T-S system in a handicap race, if the slower car redlights he is NOT immediately DQd and can in fact win that round if the faster car redlights by a greater amount. In the case where the slower car goes on green and the faster car redlights, the faster car IS automatically DQd. If fairness is being sought using the T-S system, why does the slower car, in the last instance, get a second chance to win the round and the faster car doesn't (he's immediately DQd)? Sounds like the for-sure DQ is shifted to the faster car in a handicap race.
Using your line of reasoning the fast car's first chance to win is if the slow car goes red or not. Which is the same as the fast car, does he go red or not. Both cars get the same chance to win. One does not get more chances than the other at the starting line with TruStart.

With many tracks getting TruStart (I've heard 30+) you can bet NHRA won't be far behind.

Jeff


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