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-   -   Original hemi dart information (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=13002)

John Langer 09-23-2010 09:35 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Mr. Montgomery does my alignment every year. I believe he told me that he bought the 65 tripple nickel new. It was originally an auto car but that index go hammered so bad in Gainesville that he converted it to an stick car, still has it and races it. The other 65, he bought after a guy rolled it, he still has it. The 68 he got new and started out as a ss car, then pro stock car then m/p car, still has it. Walking into his shop is like walking back in time.

Paul Ceasrine 09-23-2010 02:56 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Dennis,

I have to go through my records. Either Jack or Ken was rolled by
Dean Nicopolis 1967 Plymouth R/O Hemi car.
The article stated it was only 3 weeks old.
That car was an automatic. The second car was a 4-speed.

Why does 'Knopf Plymouth' stick in my mind??

M68,
Damn near every right side (passenger side) shock tower of those cars
looks different. Too many different 'Ball-Peen' hammers.

R/T,
I could get in trouble. On the BO-29 Cuda's serial #'s.
#126 went to Wilkes Motor Sales, Zainesville, Ohio
#127 went to Myl Chrysler-Plymouth, Coraoplis, Pennsylvania
As far as I know, both of these cars were delivered to the dealers.
Tom Myl raced his for a short time.
Wilkes sold their car to Arlon Vanke, his second Cuda car.

pc

Jim B 09-23-2010 06:17 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine (Post 212659)
Dennis,

Why does 'Knopf Plymouth' stick in my mind??

pc

That Pennsylvania dealer was involved in NHRA Division 1 Stock/Super Stock back in the day. I'm almost positive that the Super Stock magazine 6 pack project stocker came out of that dealership.

Mopar Steve 09-23-2010 09:23 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine (Post 212659)
Dennis,

I have to go through my records. Either Jack or Ken was rolled by
Dean Nicopolis 1967 Plymouth R/O Hemi car.
I thought it was before Indy and even the June Springnationals at
E-Town.
Because whoever had it, got a brand new car from the factory.
The article stated it was only 3 weeks old.
That car was an automatic. The second car was a 4-speed.

Why does 'Knopf Plymouth' stick in my mind??

M68,
Damn near every right side (passenger side) shock tower of those cars
looks different. Too many different 'Ball-Peen' hammers.

R/T,
I could get in trouble. On the BO-29 Cuda's serial #'s.
#126 went to Wilkes Motor Sales, Zainesville, Ohio
#127 went to Myl Chrysler-Plymouth, Coraoplis, Pennsylvania
As far as I know, both of these cars were delivered to the dealers.
Tom Myl raced his for a short time.
Wilkes sold their car to Arlon Vanke, his second Cuda car.

pc

In late 1975, Montgomery located Jack Werst’s old “Mr. 5 & 50” Belvedere in Allentown, Pennsylvania. “We updated that car, and used it in the summer of 1976. We won Maple Grove Dragway’s ‘Super Stock Spectacular’ race in August, beating George Cureton in the final. It was one of the largest independent events of the time, and after winning it we figured we were ready for Indy.” At Indianapolis, though, disaster struck. “I was turning off the return road and was hit by Dean Nicopolis, another Hemi racer. He didn’t see me, and hit me pretty hard. It rolled the car over, and tore it up pretty good. The car’s racing days were over, but I still have it. In fact, it‘s for sale, and it has all the right numbers and documentation that any collector would want.”

http://competitionplus.com/index.php...1282&Itemid=24

mopar68 09-24-2010 05:34 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis P Chapman (Post 212606)
Also John bought the GTX brand new.

Lucky John! Thanks for the info, Dennis.

M68

mopar68 09-24-2010 05:36 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1166/1968dartss2.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4263/gohummer2.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5527/hemivshemi.jpg

M68

Paul Ceasrine 09-24-2010 11:41 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
M68,,

Nice, Mary Ann Foss,,, the Bellville Bell out of Ohio.

Looks like the SS/BA "T" class run-off.

Nice Photo's.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The M68 shoots out photo's like the
OCTO-MOM shoots out kids.

PC

Paul Ceasrine 09-24-2010 02:16 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
R/T,

Every car came from 1 of 3 possible locations.
Larry Cooper, sponsorship DeLoach Dodge out
Monroe, Lousiana.

Larry Cooper as of Jan. 1970, was the SS/BA, NHRA MPH Record Holder. with a 134.87 mph

mopar68 09-24-2010 04:28 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine (Post 212820)
M68,,

Nice, Mary Ann Foss,,, the Bellville Bell out of Ohio.

Looks like the SS/BA "T" class run-off.

Nice Photo's.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The M68 shoots out photo's like the
OCTO-MOM shoots out kids.

PC

Paul,

I didn't know who Octo-Mom was until a couple of minutes ago. Momma mia! :D

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3...bandit1970.jpg

M68

mopar68 09-24-2010 05:01 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Rich Brostek?? I thought Joe Jill drove.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7...nhemidart1.jpg

Any idea who this is? I can only make out "Jerry's Automotive" on the door.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/717/img030kj.jpg

M68

davezinn 09-24-2010 06:22 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
that last Barracuda is interesting. maybe the quarter panels say Colonial Auto Body?

check out the flared rear wheel openings, pin added to the middle of the hood and the single scoop support. also of note are the air cleaners or velocity stacks?

on both the Barracuda and the Red Light Bandit are the Hurst/factory supplied exhausts. looks like they are just tied up under the cars.


Dave

mopar68 09-24-2010 07:13 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davezinn (Post 212907)
that last Barracuda is interesting. maybe the quarter panels say Colonial Auto Body?

Looks that way. A quick web search comes up with this address:

Colonial Auto Body
(516) 822-4510

4 Burns Ave
Hicksville, NY 11801

"Hello. Yes, I'm calling regarding a 1968 Hemi Barracuda..."

M68 :)

Paul Ceasrine 09-24-2010 07:34 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
M68,
Excellente' on the find.

I identified this car awhile ago. I think this car is on the
Long Island Drag Car, New York car site.
Never could do the stamp/seal of approval on whether it was a true
BO-29 car.
Looks like SS/B on the "C" pillar though.
The track, sure looks like New York National Speedway.
Odd things;
*) Flared rear wheel wells
*) Odd hood scoop opening and single support post
*) Those ain't mufflers under the car near the rear wheels. Look closer,
those baby's are traction bars. AHHHHHHHH!

Hicksville, L.I. very close to New York National Speedway

Good find,,,,,,,,,,pc
pc

Paul Ceasrine 09-25-2010 04:43 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
R/T,

If you look at the purple Cuda. That is a Plymouth color.
My mind is a blank on this.
But what Mopar factory-racer utilized that color.
That might help determine its origin.

pc

Chris DeGidio 09-25-2010 08:45 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine (Post 213029)
R/T,

If you look at the purple Cuda. That is a Plymouth color.
My mind is a blank on this.
But what Mopar factory-racer utilized that color.
That might help determine its origin.

pc

Ostrich??

Paul Ceasrine 09-26-2010 10:20 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Chris,
Chuck's color is close, but of much higher quality.
The paint quality on the Cuda posted is not the same.

Anyone ever see "King Dart".
Dark green, with gold lettering.
Was at the 68' Indy Nationals.

pc

JSLRacing 09-27-2010 06:22 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Why were these cars placed in SS/BA then moved to SS/AA... What was running SS/AA at the time these cars came out?

X-TECH MAN 09-27-2010 08:10 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSLRacing (Post 213259)
Why were these cars placed in SS/BA then moved to SS/AA... What was running SS/AA at the time these cars came out?

Nothing Detroit built made the SS/A class at that time. NHRA had the class expecting Detroit to build something as a production S/S car faster than the Hemis at that time and that never happened so in the end the Hemi 'Cudas and Darts became the top class/fastest cars at 6.0 lbs per HP.

flintstonecharger 09-29-2010 09:06 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by W J (Post 212358)
Paul, Daryl, and others...You guys know that Steve O'Neill is still looking for the whereabouts of his uncle Gene O'Neill's '68 Hemi Dart (Gene's Speed Shop) that was in the Worcester, Mass area and campaigned on the eastern seaboard NHRA tracks and in Canada for only a couple yrs. when new. Steve has found (in Quebec) and restored Gene's earlier '65 Coronet A990 Hemi to flawless original race condition (Flintstone Charger car). Steve would really like to find uncle Gene's Dart.... Anyone? Thanks. WJ:)

Hello WJ,thought you knew I am pretty sure found Dart @ All Hemi Reunion few years back?Dave McDade from Canada owns car,still not 100% positive but best candidate so far,we're still researching,later, SteveO

flintstonecharger 09-29-2010 09:26 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Liteweight (Post 207102)
Paul
As far as I know, Hurst installed the factory length Dana's that were to go into B Bodys, Runners, Cornets, etc. That's why they used those goofy offset rear rims. This is the first I heard of a shortage, but I've been wrong before,---just not today yet!!!
There was a shortage on the glass fenders on the later cars I believe, & when they came available again, they came in blue gel coat.
As far as the modified steering arms,, the only car I've seen with them is the Joe Jill Speedwin Automotive car. When I purchased the Landy 4 spd. car from Steve O'Neil in 96, there was a new set of these things in the trunk, but not on the car. Not sure how many were actually installed by Hurst, before they let the cars go. I thought these were an after thought because of the poor steering geometry due to the K members being spaced 1/2". Only those "in the know" got them. ------- Any Input??????

Liteweight
Daryl

Hello Paul,those steering arms that were in trunk of Dart came from Steve Segal,he owned the car after Ron Murtha.When I owned the car I was digging for parts/history from earlier owners of car,that is how I had them,not sure if they were ever on car or not ,try Steve Segal for more info? Later, SteveO

Black Hemi Dart 09-29-2010 06:01 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemi Moose (Post 213256)
I'd be interested in finding out any history or info on the "King Dart" whereabouts myself, do you know anything PC? Anyhow here's a few more 68 LO Hemi Dart's.

I know of the King Dart. It's now black with checker paint job and sitting in my garage. It's an early built car.Mark J was the one who sent me that picture back in 2006 after I had found green paint on it. The second owner is the question. Third owner was Harry Prososki from Neb. He owned it for 20 years. Have alot of pictures that Harry sent and even burned a DVD from 8mm movies when he was at Thunder Valley racing the car. I would also like to have more information on this car. I do have the second owners name at home, was told it was raced in early Pro Stock.

JSLRacing 09-29-2010 06:09 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Please Please Please posts some of those videos you have.. You can load them to Photobucket..

I would love to see the cars back in the day before they were crazy modified...

MattConte 09-30-2010 12:21 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Yes, Please post pics.

JSLRacing 10-02-2010 07:08 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
What year were they allowed to tub the car? This the rules slowly progress to minitubs and factory frame, then full back half or was it like over night the cars were allowed to get tubbed?

Did any of these cars run ladder bars or just 4 links when they got tubbed.

Ben Holt 10-02-2010 11:43 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Black Hemi Dart,
Does your car still have the Carriage Towne CDJ decals on the sides?

You bought that one from Pancake, correct?

Black Hemi Dart 10-03-2010 10:01 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Yes I got the car from Jim Pancake in Dec of 2005. We went to your fathers shop that afternoon when Jim's new car was still on the frame rack. I always wanted one of these cars and thanks to Jim I now have one. All of the lettering is off the car now, getting ready to put it on the street. I like to call it my, lets get a Hamburger car. Just put in 4 speed pedals this weekend. Always wanted to row a 4 speed behind a Hemi. It will be a pump gas motor with the sheet metal intake still on it.

Black Hemi Dart 10-03-2010 10:08 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
/00000mieuUllessers/rhoinnn/PictiPhoto Libararary/Oirigi/2107/Mar30,2003/ eee

W J 10-04-2010 07:47 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flintstonecharger (Post 213708)
Hello WJ,thought you knew I am pretty sure found Dart @ All Hemi Reunion few years back?Dave McDade from Canada owns car,still not 100% positive but best candidate so far,we're still researching,later, SteveO

Now that you've freshened my sometimes cob-webbed 64-yr.-old memory, Steve.......I do remember you mentioning that to me during one of our previous discussions. ...Thanks----and try not to ever grow old like me, ha..... WJ;)

Paul Ceasrine 10-28-2010 05:27 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Did anyone ever find out where the "King Dart" car originated from.
It was at Indy in 1968. Green with "King Dart lettered in gold, with
'old English' style lettering..

Jocko,
As for technical info.
The 1968 '383' Barracuda weighed in at #3254 lbs.
The 426 Hemi weighed #145 lbs. more than a 383.
In theory, a 1968 Barracuda with a Hemi engine would in weigh in at
#3399 lbs, without any weight lightening provisons.
The 68' Race Hemi Barracuda weighed in at #3020 lbs.
Which means, the Mopar Factory Race Techs were able to knock off
#379 lbs. of weight off the car.
The 68' Hemi Cuda's and Darts were approxiametely #400 lbs. lighter than the 65' Race Hemi Belvedere's and Coronets (Weight #3408 lbs.)

PC

Black Hemi Dart 10-29-2010 06:22 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Since I have a larger picture of the King Dart there is a name on the door. It's Randy and Jim Miller. It shows a lady helping to push the car in the staging lanes. Maybe Sandy and Jim Miller?

MattConte 10-29-2010 07:12 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Black Hemi Dart,
I see that you are in Phoenix Az. Do you take your Dart out to any of the local car shows and hang outs? I would love to see it up close.
if you are on the west side and you are looking to take it to a car show this weekend. There is a neat little one going on this Sunday at Greenway High School. I will be working the registration there. :D
Yea I know, A shameless plug. Anything to see a real LO23 in person.
Matt
lookoutmcp@msn.com

Nitro Joe Jackson 10-29-2010 07:44 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
the original 1967 meeting of the 68 Hemi Dart & Cuda
I have it where you can read it good, send me a e-mail and I'll send it to you.

Paul Ceasrine 10-29-2010 09:31 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Nitro Joe,
A great article from 1967.
Who wouldn't have wanted to be a 'fly-on-the-wall' during those meetings.

Closing in on the SS/BA ,,,,,"King Dart", Jim Miller,,,,Georgia-based ?

pc

Paul Ceasrine 10-30-2010 03:32 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Hemi-Head,

The first 'Major' event for the 68' Race Hemi Cuda's and Darts was the
1968 NHRA Springnationals at Englishtown, New Jersey.

Though the information is difficult to find, Don Grotheer won the SS/B
class with the all-white 'Cable Chrysler-Plymouth' Cuda.
He defeated Ronnie Sox in the Sox & Martin Cuda.
Did he win out-right,,NO. Both cars ran under the index/record.

Ronnie Sox won and went quicker in the SS/B Class Final, but lost due to the fact that he went further under the index than Don Grotheer.

pc

68hemiss 10-31-2010 11:42 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
If I am not mistaken, Sox and Grotheer ran their Barracudas through the semi finals at the 68 Springnats and right before the finals Sox's Cuda had a tire go flat. Sox used his 67 car (that was also entered and had been defeated earlier -possibly different driver) to beat Grotheer in the finals. I am not sure how legal it was to change cars but they must have gotten an OK.
Mark J

68hemiss 10-31-2010 11:44 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
The King Dart was a St Loius based car - run by Jim & Sandy Miller. I belive that the Dart's name came from the dealership it was purchased at - King Dodge in St Louis - it still exists today.
Mark J

Paul Ceasrine 10-31-2010 04:35 PM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Mark J,

Glad to see your back on the thread:).

Can't seem to find any lettering on the 'King Dart', regarding location.
Some distorted lettering the quarter-panel.
Possibly Kings-Highway, St. Louis.

Another James Miller ran a Hemi Dart in the Atlanta area. Can't find any
history though.

Paul

Paul Ceasrine 11-01-2010 09:16 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Hemi-Head,

I have to go through my storage area to find all the ET runs at
the 68' Springnationals.
If I recall, in Super Stock, the SS/B class ran off a
10.85 minimum, and SS/BA ran off a 10.90 .

I'm pretty sure Don Grotheer (Cuda) won the SS/B class over Sox & Martin (Cuda), as both cars went under the index (broke out).
Ronnie Sox won the race out-right, but went further under the index
than Don Grotheer, which gave the Class Title to Grotheer in the
all-white 'Cable Chrysler-Plymouth' car.

In Super Stock Eliminator, the Sox & Martin Cuda car broke a slick in the staging area (during the semi-finals ?).

paul

Black Hemi Dart 11-01-2010 11:35 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Matt . I haven't had the car out for about 2 years now. I do have the motor out and at the machine shop. Also changing over to a 4 speed. Hope to have it done by the end of January and get to use it before it heats up.

Black Hemi Dart 11-01-2010 11:38 AM

Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Paul, between you and Mark I'm sure there will be some info turning up on this car. Thanks


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