Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Being a dumb-azzed city boy, I don't even know what the heck a snipe is. :-(

Seems like everything tastes like chicken anyway. LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

LOL....Its a country boy joke. You get left holding the bag as there is no snipes when your buddies tell you to stay here and collect them in the bag when they go down the hill and run them to you....only they just leave you in the dark, alone, and holding an empty bag.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Most snipe hunts fall apart, but 1972 we had one that was text book perfect. When I go home and visit the ole gang we always relive that hunt. No snipes were caught that night but I know two New York boys that will never be the same.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

To Bill Dedman and others, if this were to change one of the unintended consequences that could happen will alter qualifing vs. eliminations, just a scenario, take Fontana's elimination's ladder first round for instance.

Index Runs
#4 B/SA 11.25 10.53 -.713
#34 C/S 11.35 10.81 -.536

one would tend to believe that in most cases first round would look like this,
C/sa leaves first by .28 (all things being equal)

Now what could happen is after qualifing and only seconds before you run 1st round B/sa decides to put 10.99 on his window C/s had already put his original 10.81 and pulled into the water box thinking in most cases he is leaving first , so now you have switched (B/sa now leaves first by .18, just looking over other races this could be played out time and time again. Bill these are hypotheticals but it could and probably would happen with the new rule, i also understand that in cases this could happen already but generally B/sa is going to want to leave second .Bill can you see the mess this could cause which then would lead to another rule to prevent this. Unintended consequences. Bill just look at other races and see how many times this could play out. P.S. I think my numbers are right but if there is an error it is unintended. Bill now have you given some cars an advantage to pick and choose again?

Neal

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Done

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Afraid I would have been with the New york guys, before today. LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You guys are nuts, hunting for snipe. It is only a small bird from the Gallinagos species.
It's all fun and games trying to trick some folks about snipe hunting, that is until you come across a professional snipe hunter. Things change all of a sudden. Now get back to your debate about running a red light.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA lights out you can hear the snipe roar

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Oh man! I feel your pain Bob! Some people lack the ability of verbal or written comprehension! My head is sore from beating it against the wall! Jim



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Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

This simply is just not true! It CAN change if you can get it through the "thick heads" and convince them, much as I was, that this is worth changing! I don't see anybody "crying" about anything here Ed. I see several people debating and putting forth facts and opinions. And to tell someone to " if you can't live with that, either build a fast car or don't race. Do something else. Go fishing" is asinine. How would you feel if a Top Fuel racer told you "if you can't run 4.50 in the quarter mile you should build a faster car go fishing"? Makes just as much sense. Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I saw no name calling in that post or any other that Bill has written so far. You must be confusing Bill with Ed Wright. Jim


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Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

?????? What's the problem,again?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

What? Some of the "pro" Sportsman racers do this now, and have for years. It's called sandbagging. What's the problem again, and exactly how does it relate to Bill's debate here? Jim


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Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Then go get it done, don't cry about it on the internet. Do something, call somebody. So far we don't have to race top fuel cars. I don't have a fast car. I don't feel like I need a helping hand. Are you a liberal that wants Obama make everything easier for you?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill hit the grammar on this one, hit the name calling on another ("poor character" for which he did apologize) and others have done the insulting. I was generalizing the angle of those felt betrayed or otherwise annoyed by the issue. Both sides.
So to make it clear...the horse seems to be quite dead as its *** hangs on one side of the fence and it's head on the other but this thread will continue if for no other reason, internet bragging rights.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

This is exactly what I am talking about. Ed, my friend, you don't have a clue! If you had one you would not have written that last sentence. Me a liberal? Are you serious? Really? You really are reading comprehension challenged. Visit the lounge sometime.
The Top Fuel thing is called a metaphor. Look it up. I am so glad you pointed out we don't have to race a Top Fuel car! I never would have known that!
I get it now, you don't believe that the rules of Drag Racing should be consistent, I understand you. However, just because you don't doesn't mean everyone else does. Members of this forum are (believe it or not) allowed to discuss (crying according to you) things (rules included) without having to call Glendora (or you) to get approval to do so. Discussion IS allowed here without the requirement that you must act one way or the other on what has been discussed. Once again I say to you and others, if you are tired of this thread, DO NOT READ IT ANYMORE! Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Not to split hairs here, but my commenting on how an attitude reflects on a person's character, falls a long way from "name calling." If I'd said he was an " inconsiderate, small-minded, S.O.B." (which I did not,) THAT would have been "name calling."

You won't find that kind of personal rhetoric from me, on these boards. I apologized to the damaged party because he obviously had taken offense at my remark, and it was something I had said that I, in retrospect, regretted. He, in no way, deserved that judgment. Lucky for me, he accepted my apology.

The "worse" or "worst" red light subject isn't "Grammar," per se, but has to do with accurate communication, a staple of BB's like this one. In order for there to be a "worst" red light, there would have to be the ORIGINAL red light, a "worse" red light, and a third, or, "WORST" red light. And, as we all know, there are only two.... and, I thought it needed clearing up.

So the fact is, there is nothing in the world that can accurately be called a "WORST" red light.... it's just a matter of degree, not "Grammar."

Insofar as "bragging rights" relative to this thread is concerned, I am pretty sure there aren't any.

I know I haven't been able to accomplish anything (except Jim Wahl's welcome conversion) in the realm of winning supporters to the double red light system.

Maybe we could brag about how Big this thread is???? They say "size matters." LOL!

I'm in trouble... :(

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

[QUOTE=Jeff Lee;259759]So to make it clear...the horse seems to be quite dead as its *** hangs on one side of the fence and it's head on the other QUOTE]

The issue of having two distinctly different ways of treating two competitors. (one the first to leave, and the other being the second to leave,) with regard to having equal "red light jeopardy," will never die, until the first red light rule is changed.

Getting it changed is up to the NHRA, and until they get some personnel in charge of rules changes, who have some integrity, it probably IS a dead issue.

More's the pity...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Hey Bill, you better head on over to the ER. Your forehead must be bleeding badly by now! Jim



Use 'worse' if you're comparing two things: "I think eggplant is worse than squash, but that's just my opinion."

Use 'worst' if you're comparing multiple things: "I disagree. Eggplant and boiled cabbage are both vile, but squash is the worst!"


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Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

.................................................. ....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Jim, I've seen enough of your posts in the lounge to know your views. Many of them sound like they just fell out of glen beck's rear. That part was a joke. But when somebody builds a car knowing the rules, then expects a rule changed and some software re-written to make their life easier, it sounds like they maybe talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Looking for a little Obama care are ya? LOL
I understood the rules when I put mine together, I don't need handouts.

When are you guys going to do something other than talk?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Ed, explain to ME (not Jim,) where's the "handout" for a rule that treats EVERYBODY THE SAME, instead of favoring one segment over the other, like it is, now????

The sodftware re-write will make EVERYONE'S life easier, unless you're running a SS/A car, and all it will do to that car, is put it on equal footing with everybody else... no more "handouts" (free rides.)

If you disagree with this assessment, please tell me what it is about everybody running under the SAME red light jeopardy that you object to.

Where's the handout???? I;m listening (for an answer to that question... don't change the subject, please...) I want to know what's wrong, in your mind, with rules that treat everybody the same.

Please answer that.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Once again, we agree; I used pizza; you used eggplant... but it always takes at least three things to have a "worst."

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill,
Forget Ed. He is incapable of processing and understanding the written word. I will no longer respond to his repetitive nonsense. No matter what is posted here, whether it is fact or opinion, he simply can not understand it. He continues to post the same thing over and over again. He will now come back and tell me again to call NHRA and that I love Obama. It is truly sad. Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl
Hey Bill, you better head on over to the ER. Your forehead must be bleeding badly by now! Jim



Use 'worse' if you're comparing two things: "I think eggplant is worse than squash, but that's just my opinion."

Use 'worst' if you're comparing multiple things: "I disagree. Eggplant and boiled cabbage are both vile, but squash is the worst!"



Since you guys don't have a clue................

The policy that you are attempting to correct is the policy known as "First or Worst" not first or worse.....

If you didn't understand the content of my prior sentence, feel free to make all of the grammatical corrections that you like....

I think I will sign off with...

Have a nice day....

Bob

PS.

I can't say what I want to say because it will get me tossed off of this forum...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I've got an idea. How about at a specialty race be it S/SS or brackets lets give it a try? If the software is there, try it. Going to have to test it to see how it works anyway. Who is would try a race with it? :eek: You know the HRA's won't make a change without testing and if someone else does it and it works the will look at making a change.

Jeff

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Car A redlights

Car B crosses the centerline, .....worse , Car A gets a win ticket

Car A proceeds to the scale, is light, gets tossed

Car B had the worst infraction, but they're both still out.

I don't know how this all relates ,but it's an example of "worst"

Anyway , you guys are pretty much on the same side of this debate.You ought to quit arguing about it ..LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

What you say is 100-percent keyrect, Mark, but you're talking about "infractions," and I'm talking about red lights.

Since there's only two competitors, and it takes three of ANYthing, to have a "worst," There can never be a "worst red light."

Only worse.

How many ways can this subject of a "worse red light" be muddied up, and made to seem ambiguous, when the fix is so simple?

I have a list as long as your arm from people who don't understand this, because they don't WANT to understand it, who introduce impertinent facets to the basic argument, whose only interest in the discussion is to add situations and possibilities to the situation that have nothing to do with the basic premise (that all drivers, regardless of handicap, reaction time, or dial-in) EACH deserve a chance to red light.

People want to talk about deep-staging, clean trees, wheelspin, and anything under the sun to divert attention away from the basic question of, "Is everbody facing equal red light jeopardy."

The answer is of course, "NO, not until this rule is changed."

Not a dead horse, unless you have a hidden agenda, and feel like, somehow, SOME cars just naturally deserve a break.

I don't think so....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Jeff, the software would have to be changed. You lose many that way?

Bill, I call asking (you haven't yet) for a software re-write and rule change, especially AFTER you build a car knowing the long standing rules, a hand out. JMHO

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

That is so ABSURD !!
As are most of your "I don't care either way" posts..... you care but I can't figure out why !
What is your agenda ?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

If you don't realize it; unfair is unfair, no matter if Bill Dedman races, or not.

I'm just not that important... but thanks for the compliment. :)

When ALL CARS are subject to the SAME red light jeopardy, then I won't have a gripe.

If you don't realize that this rule affects EVERYBODY (Not just Bill Dedman,) then I've been wasting my time.

Why put up with this antiquated rule that treats different racvers differently, when if can be fixed so that EVERYBODY gets the same chance to red light? MY standing as a current racer has less than nothing to do with that.

Can you understand THAT?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Okay, where is the hand out???
How is making the rule for red lights the SAME for EVERYBODY, a hand out?
A hand out would be giving an advantage to slower car... OR a faster car (as it is, now.)

Faster cars have been enjoying a "hand out" since 1963 (the FREE RIDE if their competitor "bulbs.")

If that isn't a "hand out," I don't know what is....
Where is your objection to THAT "hand out"?????

Jeasus....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Tough one, huh, Ed????

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, your a tad slow if you don't get that most don't agree with you, or even care. Do you have any idea how many are laughing at your little crusade? Just keep asking your repetitive little questions. You don't like the answers you get, so you just keep asking them. Over , and over, and over, and over........
I don't owe you a response every time you put up a 47 paragraph post. Get over yourself. Once more, simply posting on Internet message boards won't change anything.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Thank you Bill. Jim

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Ah, the master plan is working!............. and then there were NONE!

BTW Gary... Happy Birthday Dude!!!! Jim:D

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
Makes no difference. Not going to change. Don't like it? Build a faster car or quit. Whining on a message board won't do a thing.
This is lame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
Does not matter. It's not going to change. Get over it or go do something else. Debating it won't change a thing. Go debate with the people that make the rules: NHRA. The people here have nothing to say about it. Makes no difference what anybody here thinks. Just does not matter what is said here. Get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
Bill, approaching NHRA as I mentioned and whining on an Internet message board are two different things. Going on & on about it here does nothing. More people wanted cars weighed with the drivers than want this changed. Remember the poll done here? Most racers do not want or care about this. Get over it. Not going to happen. I would like to take long showers with Pamela Anderson too. That ain't gonna happen either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
Doesn't matter what you or I think Bill, it ain't gonna change because a small group complains about it here. Talk to N & I HRA. No leverage here. Surely your bright enough to get that. Ten (or fewer) guys on an Internet message board is not going to change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
Doesn't matter, ain't gonna happen, but:
It (among other things here) has been discussed, and laughed about, in the staging lanes while killing time waiting for the endless line of throttle stop engines-on-a-stick cars run ahead of us. The slow cars that might be in favor are in the minority. You have not seen any polls here, or anywhere else, with my name on it.

Isn't there a bracket racing section here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
In the end, Bill's ( or anybody else's) long-azzed rants do not matter. It won't change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
What a radical idea! Petition NHRA instead of ranting endlessly on an internet message board! WOW!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
As I have stated many times before: I don't care either way. Read that again. I said petition NHRA instead of ranting here. Here = nothing. NHRA = maybe. That is how hp factors get reduced, not by endless message board rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
If they change it, just make it right by putting both the red light cars out.
It won't get changed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright View Post
It ain't gonna change by posting endless crap here. Talk to NHRA.






Hey, Ed, why don't you quit spamming this thread? We get the picture. How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over again?

Please put this thread in your ignore list or when you see a new post to this thread don't click on it, OK?


-Toby
__________________
Bridgewater Equipment Inc.
Specializing in Railroad Construction Services and Heavy Equipment Rental
909-887-0052 24/7 services@bridgewaterequipment.com

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'll go you one better Ed. How about we just go out there and all race heads up and the first one to the finish line wins, no red lights and no dial ins? I think that would be great, don't you? I'd win at least half the time and you ......well.....not so much huh? You probably would get tired of getting spanked by every other car that showed up except for maybe the occasional EF/S combo. You might not agree with this but so what, I want it like this! Why? Well just because. Who cares if you think it's not fair! After all we have other things we could be "crying" to NHRA about don't we? I think we can change the purses from paying only $1000 to win to $5000 if we just concentrate on that and screw the small stuff we can get that done real soon!

Now, obviously the above paragraph is not how I really feel but it makes as much sense as your answer to Toby's post and the other reasons you have posted on this subject. Thanks for playing. Try again soon. Jim


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Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

The system as it is now works just fine for me.And I'm among the maybe 5% of the guys who leave first almost every elimination run.I've done alright with the spectre of the red light rule hanging over my head now for the last 11 years running stock.Maybe if some of you guys concentrated more on your starting line abilities,instead of finding ways to
"improve" your chances of winning,you would go more rounds and this bull$hit problem
wouldn't be so much of a problem.Maybe if the non racing members here found another
outlet for their crusades they would get up in the morning without thinking someone pi$$ed in their cornflakes.Right Mr. Bill and John the Shadow?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Let me get this straight: You have been racing for ELEVEN YEARS and have won HOW MANY National events???

I haven't run my car at ANY NHRA events, and have won just as many as you have.

And, you think that system works "JUST FINE" for you????

What's wrong with this picture???

For all the national event wins you have under your belt, you might as well have left your car at home in the garage. All you have done is to provide cannon fodder for these guys taking advantage of the second to leave "free ride," red light rule. If not, they at least had the opportunity.

That would make ME want to piss in somebody's Wheaties, 'til I got the worse red light rule instated.

"Masochism".... "pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation."

Read it and weep....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I think what Bill is saying is that the system might be "working" now but it could work just a little bit better for "all", not just the last car to leave. It comes as no surprise to me that the majority of the people opposed to Bill's thoughts are the ones with the faster cars who would have a perceived advantage taken away from them. The notion that you have no say if you are a "non-racing member" is just plain dumb. If that were the case Ed, you would actually be in that category as according to the stats you haven't made a single race this year. Pretty dumb reason isn't it? Just as dumb as most of the reasons disagreeing with Bill's posts. I think Jeff came the closest to giving a viable reason of just about anyone here when he said he built a car to take advantage of an unfair situation that this rule change would negate but that still doesn't hold water with me.

The "worse red light" rule would hurt no one. It would even the playing field for 99.9 % of the non heads up races today! The technology exists to do this today, it did not in the past. It should be changed. It would make the rules of NHRA and IHRA if nothing else, consistent. Aren't we all looking for consistency? Jim

Just my opinion. I am entitled to it since I have been class racing for 45 years now. Right Ed? Please send me your phone number so I can call you and get tips on how to improve my starting line abilities!

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