Re: worst red light debate, again!
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Watch out Bob! I think Ed O'Brien stole your computer! Wow, were you an English major! No? It shows. Maybe you should look up the definition of worse/ worst first before you call us clueless. Have a nice day! Clueless Jim . |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
This will help (maybe). Copy this, and send it in to anyone who will listen to you. (BTW, I won't be sending it, for three reasons).
Dear NHRA (and/or IHRA), and officials whom it may concern. I, __________________, would like to bring to your attention the unfairness of the current red-light system in handicapped racing. THis includes bracket racing, Jr Dragsters, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman, Competition, Super Stock, and Stock Eliminators in NHRA Full Throttle and Lucas Oil drag racing events (if sent to IHRA, subsititute applicable classes). Many years ago, the break-out rule, in dial-in racing, was changed to disqualify the worst offender. I believe the redlight rule should be ammended to be the same. The worse of the two redlights should be DQ'd, not the first car doing it. Example: Car A, dialed in at 10.00, has a -.002 redlight Car B, dialed in at 9.50, has a -.005 redlight In the current format, car A is out, because he fouled first. And car B, despite a worse foul, is the winner. In all fairness, car A in my example should win, because his light was actually better (closer to .000), provided they did not cross the centerline, fail fuel check or scales, etc. I would like you to take this under consideration in the future, to make it fair(er) for ALL cars, not just the second car to leave in a handicapped race. Thank you for your time. _________________ Name _________________ Class/Car number _________________ NHRA Membership number (or IHRA, if you submit this to them You may feel free to add your own comments in your letter sent to the powers that be. So this way, you can stop posting here, get a posse together, and try to get this unfair rule changed. You're welcome. |
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Mike "Buff Daddy", my man. Hope all is well and you are feeling better.
Could you be kind enough to draft a similiar letter for us guys who think the rule is ok the way it is. I know you are an intelligent person who writes well and is objective so the yang of this yin should be able to voice their opinion as eloquently to the powers that are or is it be (?). Maybe it is Jimmy Powers', nah. Your the best, hope to see you soon somewhere. |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
Hey Joe. All is well here. I guess I could work on a letter like you suggested, but since I'm fairly certain nothing will ever change, I don't think it's needed (it's been the same for, what, 40+ years now?).
I won't be at any D-1 races, but if you fancy a journey to Hagerstown MD in November, we're doing a $2,000 to win S/SS race November 5-6. Bring the Zoo Crew and everyone else, it's always a great way to end the season in the Northeast. |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
Mike, I agree it will not change and not sure it should or should not. I like leaving on the fast cars with a clear tree and their chance of spinning or red lighting. The slower cars are harder because of the big head start they get and having to wait.
I could careless about the redights rule cause I focus on my own deal, it has worked for many years now. I am having fun and enjoy racing every chance I get because some day this is will be all gone. But... I am ok with reasonable disagreements including this one, some are very entertaining as long as they don't get nasty, silly or as Sherry Lewis say" goes on and on and on and on......maybe we should revisit deep staging, lol I may venture out to Hagerstown at year end, I am trying to visit a new track a year and have never been there. The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have. Stay well. |
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As you can see I took my meds today......
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
Joe, you sound awfully sane. This may be the wrong thread for you. LMAO!
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
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As far as improving your starting line skills,if you haven't gotten it down in 45 years,divine intervention couldn't help you.So I guess the red light rule change would be a moot point for you. |
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
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ED, Faster cars have been enjoying a "hand out" since 1963 (the FREE RIDE if their competitor "bulbs.") If that isn't a "hand out," I don't know what is.... Where is your objection to THAT "hand out"????? That is a question I have never asked you before, and one I'd like to have an answer to. This sort of thing is repetitive because you consistently fail to answer such questions because you HAVE no answer. This current red light rule is what they would say in a court of law, "indefensible." Any defense you could muster would show it to be an unfair rule, brought about as the result of a technical failure (no technology that could deal with it at the time,) but, that is no longer the case. So, how about it; since you haven't answered the question (or, any other) before, tell me, why don't you object to the "free ride" the second-to-leave car receives if the first car bulbs??? It won't be repititious because you've never answered it, so you can't use that cop-out as a reason not to answer it. So, what's your reason???? If you just can't find an answer in your overtaxed brain, tell me this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Ed said: "I don't need handouts." Ed, explain to ME (not Jim,) where's the "handout" for a rule that treats EVERYBODY THE SAME, instead of favoring one segment over the other, like it is, now???? You have NEVER told me what there is about a "worse red light rule" that qualifies it for being labeled a "handout." It's the same for every racer. EVERYBODY gets a chance to red light. Where's the "handout"?????????? I really would like to know what there is about a rule that's the same for everybody, that compels you to call it a "handout." Tell me, Jim Wahl, Mark and Mr. Kelley what you think about this, using the word "handout" in a sentence describing how it would affect you, for instance. Thanks. |
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
Bob Mulry said:
"The policy that you are attempting to correct is the policy known as "First or Worst" not first or worse." Give me an example of a "Worst red light." Well, for example... Car A bulbs with a -345-sec infraction. That's a .345-=sec. red light BAD Car B bulbs with a -346-sec infraction, That's a .346-sec red light WORSE Car C.... Oh, there is no car C. and no "Worst" red light. There are infractions worse than a red light, such as if Car B hits the guardrail, but that's not a red light. No such thing as a "Worst red light." |
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"I think what Bill is saying is that the system might be "working" now..." It's "working," to the extent that it's not obvious enough that it's "unfair," that enough people who realize its favoritism, currently cause disturbances on the starting lines, but the more people come to realize that it's an easy fix, and one that is long overdue, and MORE unfair to a certain segment of the field, the more likely that is to happen. |
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KILL THE MESSENGER!!! All I did was ask you to answer two simple questions, and you turn into a babbling pseudo-psychoanalyst. Just answer the questions, Ed. If you don't, you're only proving that everything I said was true. Oh; that was the other ED. Well, I've never seen both of you in the same room at the same time. Can't tell the players without a program. |
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++ Mike, did you not read this post I wrote on thee subject of petitioning NHRA at this time, on the double red light system? Originally Posted by bill dedman Jeff, this a discussion board, right? I think we can agree on that. It is not just a discussion board; it is a discussion board dedicated to the idea that non-racers have brains, too, and CAN have good ideas, and need a place to put those ideas out for public scrutiny. Ken created this board for just such a purpose. Ask him... I have been able to, through my many posts here that explain the reasons why I think this "worse" red light idea could be an improvement over what we have, to use this board as Ken intended it.. Why anyone would object to using this board for the betterment of our sport is beyond me. Some say it's boring, and a waste of time. That's their opinion, and they are surely within their rights to voice it here, but I would ask, "Why would anyone continue to read something that is boring, and a waste of time?" Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and says, "READ THIS, OR I'LL SHOOT!" When I find a TV show on my television that bores me, I switch channels. There is an abundance of other subjects that are available on Class Racer that will inform, entertain, and educate... all one needs to do is click on them; nobody has to read this thread if it bores them. Having said that, and I don't think there's anything in that paragraph that you would disagree with, doesn't it make you wonder why there are SO MANY posts here???? Somebody likes it... Somebody thinks it's worth discussing. A lot of "somebodies," apparently. As far as NHRA/IHRA goes, I don't run a Class car right now, and the "quality" of people that I would be talking to at the "HRA's", don't have the perspective beyond "the company line" to entertain "outside the box" ideas from non-NHRA/IHRA racers, especially (given their financial state of affairs,) ideas that are going to cost them money (no matter, how little.) No, I am sure that the first question he'd ask would be, "What is your membership number and what is your Permanent Number," as if that information would have ANY bearing on the quality of my suggestion(s). Only by hearing it from a variety of sources, will this idea ever gain traction, and this forum is probably the best place for dispensing the kind of logic that is part and parcel of a worse red light rule. Popular opinion will get this rule passed, eventually, if, indeed, it ever gets passed. Talking to an NHRA/IHRA "official," who's relegated to answering the phones, isn't going to get it done. He's likely, already afraid for his job, and suggesting to his superiors a new rule that not only, won't make the national organization one thin dime, but will COST money to implement, isn't going to "enhance" his employment status at all... especially, at a time like this It's not the right time for that methodology, I'm afraid. Maybe it will never be. In the meantime, demonizing someone who is trying to help enact a rule that would make things more fair for everyone, and would hurt NO ONE probably isn't the best course of action... My 2-cents. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++ I wrote that awhile back, in answer to suggestions that I do just what you suggested. I explained why I do not think the timing is right for such an action. In fact, I am convinced that strategically, it would do far more harm than good, right now. But, at another time, I think what you have suggested would be a great idea, and you did, in my opinion, an excellent job of summarizing the question at hand, in a way that anybody could understand it. I was impressed! Thanks much for your hard work and insight! |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
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If you want to prove me wrong, just answer the two questions I asked Ed Wright, (in post 651) since I can no longer tell you two apart. Waiting.... |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
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Uhh Bill,you've been obcessing over this since April 22nd.(Round two).Who's dumb????????? Actually I'm having fun and you're nuts.Tomorrow I'll be serious and you'll still be nuts.Sad sad life. |
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Who's dumb? A guy who spells OBSESSING with a C... No, Ed, what's sad is that you have been right there with me, every step of the way, and still can't answer even the simplest, most basic questions about this discussion... because you know that IF YOU DO, you won't have an argument any more. And everyone knows it. Now, THAT'S SAD. :( |
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Bill, speaking of demonizing, is it something like this: "You're dumber that I think you are...." or this: "As far as NHRA/IHRA goes, I don't run a Class car right now, and the "quality" of people that I would be talking to at the "HRA's", don't have the perspective beyond "the company line" to entertain "outside the box" ideas from non-NHRA/IHRA racers, especially (given their financial state of affairs,) ideas that are going to cost them money (no matter, how little.)" Well at least you FINALLY got somebody to write that darn letter for you. All you have to do is fill in the blanks. Are you waiting for free postage now? |
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Since none of the two Ed's or Jeff can communicate a real reason that they oppose Bill's "worse red light" rule and yet have such a passionate negativity for it, it leads me to believe, in my professional opinion, that they could be suffering from what it known as metathesiophobia, commonly refered to "the fear of change". They (particularly the two Ed's) exhibit the common symptoms of:
1. A feeling of uncontrollable anxiety when you think about or are exposed to changes. 2. The feeling that you must do everything possible to avoid changes. 3. The inability to function normally because of your anxiety. 4. The knowledge that your fears are unreasonable or exaggerated but feeling powerless to control them. I have a friend who has a great website dedicated to just this phobia and I will insert it just as soon as I can find it so that you guys can begin to get some help confronting this problem. Some good reading and I hope it will help you to confront your inner demons. Here you go: http://www.phobia-fear-release.com/m...siophobia.html Bill, I would suggest that you no longer continue the banter with these guys as it has become very obvious to most people who have followed this thread that they do not have anything to useful contribute to the conversation and are just feeding off of your justifiable frustration. I have received many positive emails and would enjoy communicating with you one on one to plan a strategy on this "worse red light" situation. Feel good in the fact that there are many out there who agree with you, if for no other reason but to bring consistency to the rules, and would post just that here but do not feel like being beaten up for voicing their opinions. Me, I have thick skin and I love to try to improve the system! Jim jimwahl@embarqmail.com |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
[QUOTE]....
It's not the right time for that methodology, I'm afraid. Maybe it will never be....... There is your answer. Simple question for you mr Dedman......... In drag racing ,What does red lite mean ?????? answer ==========" YOU LOSE " !!!! Been racing for 40 years and lost a lot of races on red lites. But i knew that when i chose drag racing as my hobby. I don't need a rule change because i can lose if i red lite because i leave 1st. I look at it a diff way, If i don't go red then my competitor has a chance to do what i did not do on that run and the pressure is on him.......I personally like it that way..... I chose to run a slower et car and it does not bother me at all that i have the 1st chance to go red.....Just my opinion.... I would vote leave it alone. and suggest you practice on not going red so much.... 1st and last post on this matter .... y'all play nice now,..,.,.,.,.,. |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
[QUOTE=Jeff Lee;260359]
Bill, speaking of demonizing, is it something like this: "You're dumber that I think you are...." or this: "As far as NHRA/IHRA goes, I don't run a Class car right now, and the "quality" of people that I would be talking to at the "HRA's", don't have the perspective beyond "the company line" to entertain "outside the box" ideas from non-NHRA/IHRA racers, especially (given their financial state of affairs,) ideas that are going to cost them money (no matter, how little.)" Or maybe this: Ed F quote to Bill. :Actually I'm having fun and you're nuts.Tomorrow I'll be serious and you'll still be nuts.Sad sad life. . |
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Jim, what part of "I don't care if they change it or not, but it ain't gonna happen by posting on the Internet!" do you not understand? If you can't comprehend what is written, do I need to try to draw a picture of it? That is the position I have stated several times, and you still tell it differently. I sure wonder about you.
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Or, perhaps you will speak with the race director and ask that the faster car be reinstated as you fouled first? |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
[QUOTE=danny waters sr;260367]
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Why do you persist in refusing to answer the question I asked, "WHERE IS THE HANDOUT?" You post irresponsible comments, such as calling a rule change that will make red light jeopardy the same for everybody,) and ignore all requests to back up your statement with any kind of proof. What kind of a guy would do someting like that? If you can't/won't back up your claims, don't make them. It makes you look like your opinions have no leg to stand on. |
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"You're dumber that I think you are...." If the shoe fits.... ("obcessing???") Ed's "superior NEW JOISEY edumucation fails him, yet again... His spelling is on par with his logic... Jeff said: "Well at least you FINALLY got somebody to write that darn letter for you. All you have to do is fill in the blanks. Are you waiting for free postage now?[/QUOTE] Jeff, , did you not read this post I wrote on this subject of petitioning NHRA at this time, on the double red light system?" Here it is, again... Originally Posted by Bill Dedman: "I have been able to, through my many posts here that explain the reasons why I think this "worse" red light idea could be an improvement over what we have, to use this board as Ken intended it.. Why anyone would object to using this board for the betterment of our sport is beyond me. Some say it's boring, and a waste of time. That's their opinion, and they are surely within their rights to voice it here, but I would ask, "Why would anyone continue to read something that is boring, and a waste of time?" Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and says, "READ THIS, OR I'LL SHOOT!" When I find a TV show on my television that bores me, I switch channels. There is an abundance of other subjects that are available on Class Racer that will inform, entertain, and educate... all one needs to do is click on them; nobody has to read this thread if it bores them. Having said that, and I don't think there's anything in that paragraph that you would disagree with, doesn't it make you wonder why there are SO MANY posts here???? Somebody likes it... Somebody thinks it's worth discussing. A lot of "somebodies," apparently. As far as NHRA/IHRA goes, I don't run a Class car right now, and the "quality" of people that I would be talking to at the "HRA's", don't have the perspective beyond "the company line" to entertain "outside the box" ideas from non-NHRA/IHRA racers, especially (given their financial state of affairs,) ideas that are going to cost them money (no matter, how little.) No, I am sure that the first question he'd ask would be, "What is your membership number and what is your Permanent Number," as if that information would have ANY bearing on the quality of my suggestion(s). Only by hearing it from a variety of sources, will this idea ever gain traction, and this forum is probably the best place for dispensing the kind of logic that is part and parcel of a worse red light rule. Popular opinion will get this rule passed, eventually, if, indeed, it ever gets passed. Talking to an NHRA/IHRA "official," who's relegated to answering the phones, isn't going to get it done. He's likely, already afraid for his job, and suggesting to his superiors a new rule that not only, won't make the national organization one thin dime, but will COST money to implement, isn't going to "enhance" his employment status at all... especially, at a time like this It's not the right time for that methodology, I'm afraid. Maybe it will never be. In the meantime, demonizing someone who is trying to help enact a rule that would make things more fair for everyone, and would hurt NO ONE probably isn't the best course of action... My 2-cents." Not a good time for a petition.... regardless of who submits it. |
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Jeff; as far as "demonizing" somebody goes, how about this comment about me, from Ed: "You are a scary individual." How's that for a free psychoanalysis from a guy who thinks "obsessing" has a "C" in it... This from one of the two ED's who refuse to answer for calling this new rule, a "handout," which it is not... If YOU think it's a "handout," maybe you could answer for them... they obviously can't. |
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Proof of WHAT Bill? Proof I don't care either way, and that they won't change anything? What irresponsible comments? Maybe I need to type slower. You claim you are trying to help get a rule changed? How? By endlessly typing long winded posts on an internet message board that simply repeat the same questions over and over? What does that accomplish? Make you feel better? Get yourself some attention? What?
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Is it???? Why? Just saying it doesn't make it so... |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
I have a 9.20 bracket car at my little track we all race each other alot of 13 and 14 second cars you can see their red lights i sometimes take off early redlight also after just to rattle them a little and boy does it work cause the next good old boy sleeps and i drill them and still get the win it works for me try it sometime dont forget to tighten them there lugs
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
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It's my OPINION that them having software re-written, distributing it to all member tracks, and changing a rule to make a few not feel slighted would amount to a handout. You want proof that is my OPINION? Bill, talking to you is like talking to a wall. You seem to have trouble understanding what you read. Now, why don't you throw up about 50 more paragraphs of your tired-azzed questions you want answered. |
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My opinion was i rather leave it alone and still is...... |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
[QUOTE=bill dedman;260418]
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He has his chance to lose when i don't go red... Pressure is on him then not me, I already won the red lite fight when i went green..... "IF " the rule changed ,i would respect the rule , but as i said earlier , I would not vote for it....My opinion and stickin to it******** I gotta a idea ,,,,,,Let's just keep re-running til both drivers go GREEN...... |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
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A handout, regarding whom you think benefits ("slow cars?") as to the rules change, because NHRA made the change has NOTHING to do with a rules-oriented "handout" that might give an advantage to one group, or another. This rule change would not benefit ANY ONE GROUP, but instead would benefit EVERYONE by placing EVERY COMPETITOR under EQUAL red light jeopardy, something that doesn't exist, now... a fact you don't seem to want to talk about, and one I'm not at all sure you understand. Don't you think that the goal of protocol/rules would be to have rules that apply to EVERYONE RACING? I think that's a "no brainer." The teardown barn has ONE SET of measuring tools to ensure that a 4" bore on one car is the same size as a 4" bore on every other car. But you think it's perfectly OK to have ONE SET of red light rules for first-to-leave cars and a different set for second-to-leave cars. Full red light jeopardy for the first-to-leave car, but NO red light jeopardy, for the second-to-leave car, if the first car "bulbs." It's unnecessary and unfair. Time to change it. If you can't understand THAT, then I have nothing more to say to you. |
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WGAF (as in who gives a f**k) ......please give it a rest. You guys are just making fools of yourselves about this over and over and over and over and over and............................................... ...........................................
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Re: worst red light debate, again!
Jim,do yourself a favor and stop trying to analyze my thought process and go practice your starting line techniques so that this red light rule won't play so much on your mind.
Bill,your a pathetic old has been.Now you criticize my spelling.Get a f*cking life . |
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Oh, and no charge for the psychoanalysis! . |
Re: worst red light debate, again!
[QUOTE=Jim Wahl;260468]Well I guess you told me! Maybe you should go to work for Scotty and teach racers how to win rounds Ed. Oh, but wait, don't you think you should actually win a few rounds yourself first? Maybe even attend a race? Yours' and Ed Wright's repetitive non intelligent posts prove the point that you can't debate a moron. I should have known better than to try. My bad! People reading this thread should ask themselves why someone who has stated several times that they "do not care either way about this rule" has gone so viral and nasty and personal about it? Maybe you should have just voiced your opinion and moved on like others have done? Well my job here is done. I'm going to go hit the simulator and practice my starting line techniques because I actually DO race some. You Ed's just keep posting and proving who smart you are, or not. Jim
Oh, and no charge for the psychoanalysis! You had better practice.Must suck being a regular contributor to the round winners,when yo race. Like I said before,I've had ay least a 6 grade,mostly an 8 in the 11 years I've run Stock.And I've had a 2 digit number here in Div.1.with a slow car. and a 2 digit # the year I ran IHRA (2007). So go back to practicing,you need it. Your physcoanataletic skills need a lot of work too. Come on up here and race Div 1.Opps I forgot Perrone is up here. |
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Something keeps bringing you back here. Maybe you're expecting to see intelligent thought processes ...Maybe that's expecting too much...Either way, I know it's the highlight of MY day. I hope it goes on in perpetuity ... |
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