Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Mark,this usually is a fun/silly thread.Then some self ritious narcissistists get on here and
cheapen the fun factor.
I expect Bill to keep up his crusade,what else does he have to do.But others should be sharpening their starting line skills instaed of perpetuating this lost cause.Know what I mean?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, I answered with I DON'T CARE IF THEY CHANGE OR NOT, and YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME COMPLAINING HERE. and WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH THE PEOPLE THAT CAN CHANGE IT? What don't you understand about that? I tried typing slower, guess that didn't help.

Many people have answered your silly questions, but most of their answers don't fit what you want to hear so you just keep repeating them and complaining that nobody will answer you.

I usually enjoy tweaking you just to see how long you will go, but your starting to get a little testy. LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You must have very boring days !

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Yeah Ed, I'm going to go out to the team race on Friday night, drink myself a Rockstar or two, and chase everybody down in Sportsman.
Maybe I'll draw a red light or two and get myself a handout!

Terry, It's Obamanomics that are causing all my free time.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I didn't criticize it; I just corrected it. Is it so unimportant to you to be right about ANYTHING, or are you just getting used to being wrong?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

Ed #2 sed: "I DON'T CARE IF THEY CHANGE OR NOT."
See, I never asked you whether you care... that was not the question.

Ed #2 also said: "YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME COMPLAINING HERE."
I didn't ask your opinion of that, either.

Ed #2 said, "your silly questions." Give me an example of one of my "silly questions."
Please. Just one. You can do it,,, can't you?

Ed #2 also asked, "WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH THE PEOPLE THAT CAN CHANGE IT? "

Did you not read the reasons I posted THREE TIMES in this forum, that explained the situation with NHRA, and the reasons why NOW is NOT a good time for a petition about this??? Apparently not...

If you did, just type an X; if you didn't, type 2 X's.
That should be within your capability.

NOW, how about answering the 2 questions that I DID ask, so I don't have to type them again and again, and again????

I wrote:
1. Faster cars have been enjoying a "hand out" since 1963 (the FREE RIDE if their competitor "bulbs.")

If that isn't a "hand out," I don't know what is....
Where is your objection to THAT "hand out"?????

2. You have NEVER told me what there is about a "worse red light rule" that qualifies it for being labeled a "handout."

That rule is the same for every racer. EVERYBODY gets a chance to red light. And, why shouldn't they?

Where's the "handout"??????????

I really would like to know what there is about a rule that's the same for everybody, that compels you to call it a "handout."

You addressed "handouts" from NHRA, but not in the context that they are something that would give a car or group of cars an advantage (a "handout"). A double red light rule gives the advantage to NOBODY. Why would anybody with the ability to think, be against a rule like that?
So, after answering TWO questions that were NEVER asked, how about answering these two that WERE asked?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill. Stop. Nobody who can get up in the morning and tie their own shoes (maybe they use velcro) is as stupid as these two. They have to be just yanking your chain and wait for you to respond. They will NEVER answer your questions because they can't! Your frustration is showing and they are feeding off of it and tag teaming you. Please stop giving them the satisfaction they get out of being morons. Jim:eek:

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, I thought you were done with me? LMAO

Of course, several pages ago you were done with this, you were going to work on the race car. That didn't last long. LOL

Your so easy to tweak.

Anyway, you can stick your questions up your butt, because I don't care if they change it or not. I don't owe you answers to your dumb-azzed questions. Your the one that thinks there is a problem. I don't. Most don't.

Wahl, what do you do for a living? You think you are so much brighter than I, just what do you do?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

No Jim
No Bill

I have given a reason more than once. If I give a reason and you fail to recognize it as such, you either disagree with it and refuse to recognize it as valid or you refuse to recognize it because it just might make sense. NHRA told me it made sense and it took all of 3 seconds for the NHRA Glendora based official (that would be management level, rule maker type, not the janitor or receptionist type). Either way, it appears to me you want to bury any opposition with page after page of the same rhetoric and the same "repeat after me mantras." I do not have the time or desire to repeat it again. Hell I don't have the time to read the posts on this subject from the last 5 hours. My comments are posted here more than once, find it and study it because I'm not looking for it and I surely don't have the time to type out 300 paragraphs a day that say the same thing over and over again. So if you don't get it then stay focused on the mantra. "red light not fair, red light not fair..."

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Not sure what you are talking about? I stated several times you HAD stated a reason why you were opposed to Bill's idea. Look back at my posts if you want. I just don't think that your reason " I built my car to take advantage of the red light situation and to change it would be unfair to me" (summarizing here) is a great reason not to change it. That's all. Jim

.Why are you up so late?

.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

My feeling on this is N-Ihras may be keeping this unfair rule as is so it won't encourage racers to build slow cars. Most fans go for the wheels up faster cars so if the rule was changed to make it fair for the fast cars to have the chance to bulb after the slow car bulbs the fans would revolt. Maybe but we first need the fans. It is what it is but I sure don't understand why it's like it is. I will still continue to bulb with the best of them.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I think you could put Biondo or Fletcher in a slow car and they would still manage to get to the winners pay window

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Working! Market is crazy fast again... :)
I'm referring to my comments which were shared with NHRA and Mr. NHRA said it made perfect sense. Re: Propagating the sport by encouraging the evolution of continuously faster cars. Look it up.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Really? I thought everything had tanked? I guess if you have money now is the time to buy?
Yup, I do remember your saying that. Maybe you could email me the name of the person you spoke with so I could speak with them also. I would appreciate it! I would be glad to keep it confidential if you like. Jim


.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I saw elsewhere, somebody said this thread had been deleted.
Not true, obviously
I found it on page 4 ...
I 'm sure ,with all the racing this past weekend, it was just dormant for a few days...
So, get out your little cartoons, boys...It's Back!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Mark, why did you post? Now it's at the top again....oh wait....LOL


It's ok, i just made some popcorn to watch the show....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I guess Bill finally gave it up............ :-)

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Hey, John!

Were you so bored you had to find the oldest post STILL on the list and resurrect it? GOOD SHOW!! I guess it's a Saturday and some of us are stuck in the garage flailing away on some broken equipment!!

(I wonder if there is a record for the post with the oldest and latest comment? I think this one would be in the running!) :D

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

It was getting DULL and went down to talking about buybacks in STOCK .....I had to do something !! :-)

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

What, dig up the horse.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Red is RED. After that, the only thing that matters is if the other guy does something worse. It's the same as if both cars cross the center/boundry line. there is no distinction on who crossed more.... I don't think this horse will ever die!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

This "Beating A Dead Horse" thread ranks right up there with the "Low Car Count in Denver/Bandimere is a Terrible Track" thread that pops up every year.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

No I don't think they should change the rule. Do I wish they had sometimes? You bet!!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

All you need to do is spend a hundred grand plus to have the fastest car. so quit your sniveling........................

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Well said Neil
It only took 71 pages for the truth to come out.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

It would be more interesting to see either of them do it in a fwd stocker...I still believe it can be done, and I'm working on trying to do it, but those guys have much more winners circle success than I may ever have, however to see them reach milestones yet to be tapped:

1. Being the first NHRA divisional champion.

2. The First national champion

3. The first national Top Ten Finish in Stock.

4. The first NHRA Divisional race win this century.

5. The first NHRA National race win this century.

6. The first Multi-divisional event winner.

7. The first Multi-national event winner.

8. The first GM product to see a national or divisional winners circle.

I'm sure there's some more out there, because only Mark Yacavone, and (I think Bill Drevo Jr.?) have one an NHRA national/divisional event in fwd stock racing history (someone correct me if I'm wrong, which I certainly could be?). As long as the GOOD LORD continues to bless my budget, I'm going to be making plans on trying to one or more of the above, and I believe there are several other fwd stocker racers (like Michael Beard, and especially Stan Kopejtka after his AWESOME 4th place D5 finish last year), however Dan and Peter have the funds and the connections to undertake such a thing before seasons end if they want to (which I doubt they would because the cars are even more on the slower end of stock with the new muscle cars in Stock), however I could be surprised (as I'm sure we all would be)???

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Enough said, thanks Tim.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

John, you must have one hell of a memory, I was tarred and feathered in 2011 for that post.I guess I never will learn.lol I like the fact that we can communicate and have fun with each other on some very important question. I've always love being chase, we(slow car) have the first chance to red Light but they(fast car)have the second chance to red light. Only makes it fair. Now let me throw some water on the fire by asking NHRA to allow all cars to deep stage, giving the couple of killer cars in U/SA to be able to compete against all those new race cars from the factory.Claude Ruel

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Mr. DEDMAN hasn't sounded off yet !!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Praised be the Lord.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Great idea Claude. You should start a brand new thread on deep staging. I'm sure you will get lots of support from the class racers. Really???

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Yes ,really Charlie.
I'd be interested in YOUR concern..pro or con. ...also anyone else , how it would affect them, personally.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

We all use a three amber tree with .50 between the bulbs. I am sure that somewhere inside of 1.5 seconds is a decent RT for anyones racecar. How it affects me? It doesn't, shallow works just fine for me. Last time I deep staged was at a tow vehicle race at Palmdale 30 years ago, on a 5 amber, .50 tree. Convertor technology has come a long way since. But I will say that all of this drama makes for great reading...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

There is reasoning on deep staging, If you look at Super Street, they have a .5 pro tree because they have to weigh more than a Super Gas or Super Comp car which have a .4 pro tree. The extra weight makes the S/S car not react as quickly, it works the same for a Stock Eliminator car that is heavy with a small cubic inch engine, let them deep stage and square up the racing.

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Currently in NHRA racing..
Courtesy staging in effect
Autostart ON.
That means two prestage lights on before anyone can fully stage.
Three lights on, Autostart kicks on and gives the not staged driver approx. 8 seconds to get in, or be timed out. At that point, the tree fires off , still after a random interval.
If a driver wants to go deep, working inside that window, what's the problem?
Why is it illegal?
The PROs can do it.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

The real reason NHRA. That should end further debate.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Please don't take this wrong but you can't cut a good light with a slower car, unless you deep staging? Only lower classed, slower cars I ever drove were sticks. If that's. The case, what's the problem with red lights? You do know that many guys, if they spot a car which goes red they think "I won!" and go ahead and leave instead of sitting there on the 2 step instead of sitting there for no reason. Right?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I bracket race an '01 Corvette, it's 60' is 2.08 best, so I deep stage it. You can't guess on where to leave between lights, so I leave the same as my Stock Eliminator car which I shallow stage. The variable is that the Corvette has desert gears with an automatic in it, the Camaro has a 4 speed with allot of gearing. The roll out time is about the same with the staging difference, it's all about consistency.

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Amen to that !!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I know I'm nuts and adding fuel to this ever burning fire but if someone can state one valid reason for not changing the first red-light loses to the worst red-light loses other than "That's the way it's always been so leave it alone" then I promise you will not hear anything more from me on this topic!