Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dude...you took it personal..
Wow thin skinned...
If you did not support IHRA you did not support our Sport!
Thanks for validating my post.

And I have a legal IHRA Stocker and more Stock than yours.
If NHRA does not want my business I will support the programs that do!

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Hey Dingbat you didn't run NHRA so you didn't support our sport. You see how stupid that sounds.
News flash IHRA doesn't run stock anymore so how can it be a legal sticker without a sanctioning body?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Are there any other differences between an NHRA Stock car and a IHRA Crate Motor Stock car, other than the engine?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

You don’t speak for me!
Everyone runs at sanctioned NHRA tracks.
Still that is not the issue...

You admit you did not support IHRA Class Racing!
That was my point! Too many others did not either.
And you had combinations to run both and you didn’t.
What was wrong attending IHRA programs?

Instead you dirge me trying to duck the issue and play victim.
I have a legal stocker because the rules are documented and still apply.
Especially running at association and NMCA races.
Because there is this thing called integrity!

It is frustrating dealing with grumpy people like you.
Why would any one want to come near an NHRA Meet?
Instead of supporting this invitation by NHRA you are trying to beat us into submission until we smile!

Speaking for myself, Iam not changing anything to have fun.
Which is the reason any one of us builds what we have.
I have options and will go where my business is courted.
Also called Capitalism !

I think it is cool that NHRA is promoting the 1/8th mile races.
Especially Allowing CM cars to compete!
Just wish they invited the rest of us Pure Stocks and GT cars.

I am still a proud IHRA member and NHRA, and NMCA and soon AHRA!

It is sad that IHRA dropped Class Racing.
Let’s hope NHRA does not do the same!

Dan

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

One difference is mini tubs and 10.5 inch tires.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

You're also allowed minor suspension mods for tire clearance (i.e.: 3/4" offset kit for leaf springs on Mopars.) and you can have a trunk mounted battery without a matching one up front. There were originally a few cars built with springs moved into frame rails, but they were getting away from that as too radical. They also revised other rules shortly after inception that originaly allowed other brand rear ends (i.e: Ford 9" in place of 8 3/4" - sounds like FS!) and tightened up on hood scoop rules to keeping original hole specs & sealed/unsealed configurations, like with "regular" Stock rules. They also allowed replacement aluminum radiators before NHRA did.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Good Luck to you 1/8 mile folks glad you have a program to race
But you proud crate motor and pure Stock racers better get of ClassRacer and race
Also you Proud people fail to realize that most ihra support came from us Nhra racers
If you continue to get same car counts as in the past You will have nothing again
If you get less support from the Nhra car you will have No Cars.
We get more cars at an East Coast Stock Ss race than you could get at any 2 ihra races
All Talk Will Spell Doom for you keyboard beaters. We will see.
I bet you guys fumble the ball and make excuses

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

You all know arguing over this is a fools errand. Weather you agree or not,show up or don't, win and take the money and move on. Simple as that. The racer that takes the money wont be bitching. Clint Eastwood said more in three words than most said in a hundred.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

NHRA missed and opportunity to pick up several hundred more cars.
That is a lot of business.

I think NHRA will add Crate Motors!
It is a natural fit for the existing program.
Plus attract more attention from aftermarket industry.
Which may provide more Contingincy money.

NHRA is allowing new Build Blocks, Heads and Manifolds.
I think the class should be call Modified Stock!

NHRA should create a new Stock Eliminator Class and keep it Stock
Designed to allow new production cars to compete against each other.
Some new Production cars are running mid 9 sec out of the factory.
Even the L4s and V6s are quicker then most Muscle Cars.
Get back to classic Bolt On Mods.
Which would attract more aftermarket products!

All about the business of earning money and having fun..

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, how did NHRA miss on getting hundreds of new racers? I thought
they developed an 1/8 miles series just for the disenfranchised crate
motor cars. 92.4 % are in Division 2. Your logic escapes me.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Hey Dan, I don't know why you continue to do this you are the most ****ed-up individual I've ever met give it up and NHRA don't want you leave it alone.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Bob nailed it!!!!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Sounds like it might be getting close to "Popcorn Time".

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

lol!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, you got pretty beat up on here back in December or so. Now you're back with more "ideas".
Assuming your idea took off, how long until your new car stockers are just as, um, "stock" as Stock Eliminator? It's the nature of the beast. The more rules there are, the more "innovation" there will be!

I've been a fan of Stock Eliminator (and a participant for a few years in the 90's) since the early 70's. I don't agree with the way it has gone. But that's what it is! I don't participate!
I would never expect it to change to suit me! That's ridiculous!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

This........Delusional Dan, NHRA doesn’t want OR need you, at times I am not sure they want any of us.....

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Mini tubed cars are not stock , 10.5 tire cars are not stock and crate motor cars are not stock. The first two can fit super stock and crate motors can go play in the brackets.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Hey Dave;
I am sure the rules would morph! Most for safety reasons.
Been asked many times by a Racer how to run in Pure Stock.
Was making good headway too getting combinations certified.
IHRA put a stop to it limiting it to 2005 and earlier.
All the local tracks are running them anyway in brackets.
Seems to me this is low hanging fruit NHRA can capitalize on.

I am business guy with a very successful record with every company I worked for.
Plus 25 years in Business with my own company.
Played and formed several competitive soccer teams and created an entire soccer league.

Seems to me creating Show Room Stock would energize Stock.
It was how we got the Jenkins, Stickers, Bannons, and others that built the sport.
We were also impressionable kids with all the hot cars available back then.
Seems it has been forgotten how it got all started!

Otherwise I am good with it if it does not go in my favor!


D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

What % of cars, that were running Crate Motor classes recently, had taken full advantage of the rules? What % were otherwise NHRA-legal cars that just had an engine swap?

If you put a NHRA-legal 9" tire on a car that still had it's IHRA-allowed mini-tubs and relocated springs, would it have an advantage over a NHRA Stocker?

Is it correct that you can build certain NHRA-legal Stocker engines almost entirely out of aftermarket parts, aside from the intake manifold? (approved replacement block, oil pan, crankshaft, rods, pistons, heads, carburetor/EFI, & ignition, plus all the traditionally replaced components like headers, cam, valve covers, rocker arms etc.).

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

They don't......Isn't that apparent to you ? They just want your money !

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Mike you are 100% correct. I'm a Crate motor guy with a brand new legal crate motor sitting on my shop floor. I contacted Glendora about building a legal NHRA motor, they told me my options, so I dug into the rule book and ClassRacerInfo.com. I really had quite a laugh of what I discovered. So NHRA allows aftermarket blocks, heads, intakes just as you outlined. So what's the difference ??? So really here I sit with a legal 350ci 330hp crate motor that is more stock then what the NHRA book allows. The only thing I can come up with is all of these keyboard jockeys on here are just plain in simple SCARED of our combinations because we run faster without spending thousands of dollars to cheat, that's right some of you keyboard jockeys on here have auctally admitted to it. Therfore is the reason, they call us bracket racers or oh go back to the brackets, that's right we can go bracket race our cars because they can take it unlike the others. I'm a guy that says what Im thinking, it's real hard to read all of this hatred and hold back from responding to these scared people. My Legal Crate Motor is going in my mini tubed, 10.5" tire, holley 750cfm, Edlebrock Super Vector intake car in a few weeks and will race it's little heart out at Class Assioation races and local brackets.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

If you guys really want to get these cars added on a regular basis I suggest you show up and support these Open races. Rich and Division 2 have given you guys an opportunity to show there is a need. If I were in your position I would be rallying my fellow CM racers and preparing to go support these races instead of coming on here trying to pick a fight and calling people cheaters.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Precious!
Birch did not call them cheaters.
He repeated what they said!

Hope all this has solidified CM racers.
Maybe some enterprising soul will start a CM association.

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan I'm trying to turn over a new leaf here, I don't recall anyone admitting anything about any cheating here so may be you can point that out for me. I am completely sincere when I say the ball is in their court here, if I had a crate motor I would be prepared to travel from half way across the country to attend these races to show there is support. If CM guys don't come to these races it will go away just like IHRA.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

No, actually you don't have a perfectly legal crate motor. You know why? Because crate motors are not accepted in NHRA Stock Eliminator, and IHRA Stock Eliminator is dead. What you have is a candidate for a bracket car or a street car.

Further, it didn't come stock in anything, so it isn't more stock than any legal original combination, regardless of accepted aftermarket components.

Mostly what you have is a car, an illegal engine, and an entitled attitude that makes you think the current rules should be altered to fit your wants and needs, not to mention a holier than thou attitude about how stock your crate motor is. Oh, and the superiority complex that makes you think anyone is scared of you.

You guys with crate motors are demanding that everyone else change their class with set rules to suit you, along with Mr. Pure Stock. And you've gotten worse with every post about how you think you're entitled to change someone else's game, and they're jerks for not jumping through hoops and bending over backwards to do as you ask.

Here's the deal, the NHRA class has been around a long time, and has done better than the IHRA deal. So much better now that NHRA races usually fill their quotas, and your IHRA deal dropped stone dead. those are the absolute incontrovertible facts, regardless of how you, I, or anyone else feels about them. If the IHRA deal was so great, and you guys had such a good thing, it would still be going, and NHRA would be falling all over themselves to do it.

I don't have anything personal against any of you. I really hate that you lost your place to race, I hate that for anyone, and I hate that it keeps IHRA from doing at least a little to help keep NHRA slightly honest. Currently, we're not racing, hopefully, in the not too distant future, we can return. In the mean time, I'm helping about a dozen other guys with their program, selling parts and technical support, at minimum. None of them is running anything other than a currently legal NHRA combination, and none of them wants to see any classes added. The way they see it, they're stepping up to spend the money to build a combination that fits the current rules, and if they can do it, so can you.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Alan, what I don't think they realize is If NHRA were to allow crate motors in a year there would be killer crate engines being built just like the current stock eliminator stuff. I know Tilburg,Gulius, Barton and numerous other bulders would have them stupid fast in no time.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

I think I saw a V-8 Vega in IHRA crate motor class. Makes sense? Not to me. I ran a real Vega with the 4 cycl. Build your class car to the only rules that are there, NHRA !!!!!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

There were plenty of scienced out crate motors that used to run with the IHRA.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Cool

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Really.? I don't recall any.... Who.? Gulius ,Barton or Tilburg are in a different zip code when it comes to speed (running under the indexes). Others too of course,... but their names were mentioned. If you turned them loose on the same engines, apples to apples, especially with the 3 tenths gift handicap that IHRA had, and no horsepower penalty system in place, it would have been entertaining at the least. Most NHRA cars that showed up at IHRA races left their cars in bracket mode and were top top qualifiers .. I don't mean to be disrespectful, and maybe I'm wrong and missing something here, , but there is ( I mean was) no comparison ..And it don't madder anyway

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Arrgh !

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Bracket mode means you turn the wick down during eliminations.
Until there is a heads up race.
Even then racers move up and down a Class to avoid one.

New aftermarket pieces for Stockers are just CM engines without saying it!
No shame in it..IHRA CMs are natural documented replacements.
What we have now anyway is Modified Stock and Super Stock.

A real Stock Eliminator Class will have to be recreated!

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Looking at how many NHRA Stockers can`t get into a national event as it is, and the overall car counts in Stock, I would have to say that the Current version of NHRA Stock Eliminator is very healthy , and has no need to be "re created", least of all to bring in a few now homeless IHRA cars , owned by people who took a chance on building cars that are not legal by the largest santioning body.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

See, Dan, that's exactly why people dismiss what you say immediately.

We have a 69 Camaro 427/425. We've run it since 2007, it's apart right now. Yes, it has GM replacement cylinder heads and intake. No, it is NOT a damned crate motor. You calling it one, with your ignorant opinion, doesn't make it one, either. It uses a a couple of GM replacement parts, but it is the original combination sold in 1969, a 427/425HP L-72.

Your pompous arrogant opinion about the class and the cars is exactly why the vast majority of NHRA Stock Eliminator racers don't want a damned thing to do with you or your suggestions.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Are the original L-72 closed chamber heads an open chamber 119cc replacement head cut down to 103.3 cc closed chamber specs?

Just more proof of how F'd up stock and SS are at this point

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

If IHRA classes are so great, how come no one showed up to race, forcing IHRA to drop the classes? If all you keyboard commandos actually raced instead of whining on the internet, IHRA might have kept their classes.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Bob;
Good points! Here are a few reasons.
NHRA racers did not like the 1/8mile races.
Bracket Racers complain about having to run 1/8 mile too.
Most want 1/4 mile..that is a general consensus !

Racers for personal reasons ignored IHRA.
Despite having combinations to run both organizations.
The loss of Mr Bader Sr may have been another.

Not directly related but loss of Modified Production other changes in rules.
NHRA not adopting IHRA cars.
NHRA wanting to kill IHRA to have all the marbles.

Now NHRA has no competitors and that does not bode well.

Alan;
I have never to best of my knowledge been pompus or disrespectful to anyone.
Despite the pounding hate and grief from posters.
I am just providing facts, ideas and opinions like everyone else.
If you see a post where I disrespected a person.
Please post it and will apologize.

We are talking about future of our sport !
Out of nowhere someone wakes up, falls off their stool and goes into rage rash.
I am not responsible for that.

Rory;
You make a clear case and got that. ..... For today!
Got to think about the future of Class racing.
How will it change and it will.
Trying to lead with what do we want it to be?
There are big issues such as what is the age demographics of Class racing.
How do we compete to attract younger racers?
Such as those installing the popular LS engine in older rides.

Then look at the number of Racer Postings that have passed away.

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

It don't "MADDER" anyway ?????? New way to spell matter ?????

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

When I was competing in the IHRA there were a lot of crate motor cars. Some of them were pretty fast. I am not going to debate who builds better stuff. But, if a person thinks that all it takes to go fast in a crate motor car is a cam swap they are dreaming. The same recources are available to everyone.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

On purpose...My spell check works. I'm about as good at spelling as you were @ checking cars ..! LOL, Just kiddin.......