CLASS RACER FORUM - Stock and the late models, a solution.

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Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daran Summerton (Post 216011)

The easy fix is no heads up in the eliminator. If folks wish to spend $150,000 on a cupcake for $200 and a trophy for class well then God bless em. I'm not bashing but FI classes were deleted a couple years ago and class win payout remains unchanged. Hence, the poor car counts. I'm for combining sticks and autos with a drastic purse adjustment. Adding classes has already failed in the past. Division 2 is looking dismal and there doesn't appear to be any incentive to get racers excited about next year. When there is only 25 Stockers in the lanes the new cars really don't bother most unless you have a heads up. I think purse should be adjusted before classes are.

Daran, if we are going to go to that then why not go to my idea (sarcastic, of course)?
No more class designations, engine has to look stock, flat hood, 9" tires, dial the car and race! We can call it "ET-2".

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 216045)

What a way to start the day off - Billy and I agree on something - can't wait to see what happens the rest of today . Stock should be just that ..........more classes is not the answer . If we were to make all the changes that are suggested I wouldn't need the NHRA -- we could all just go to our local track every weekend .

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Jim,

You and I know that the new cars are not going away. For better or worse they are in Stock and will stay in Stock.

It does not matter what we call the new cars, I was just making a suggestion.

These are only ideas, and I would rather see constructive suggestions than beating a dead horse that they don't belong in stock.

Darren, Suggesting to make it a bracket racing only is not going to happen.

I ask members to please suggest ideas, if you wish to hammer NHRA, please do not do it in this thread.

Pete, your are probably right about the sticks, the cars are pretty equal today.

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Ken,
You have listed good thoughts.
Discussion of class combinations to reduce numbers is important too.
50 lb added to Stick wt is a good start. Many Stick classes are just not run as intensely as auto classes due to numbers of cars and cost and maintainence of the stick cars.
Latest clutchless trans (if used) can boost performance even more.
Heads up runs are a MUST in Stock and SS to keep it a "race" not a bracket show.
Crate motors, if given an equivalent factor of the motor they resemble are a positive.
No more junk yard searches.Issue is appearing like a non production car.
.75lb between classes has been discussed by Len Imbrogno as a definite workable separation which decreases classes.
Drag racing "Class Racing" needs the Factory excitement and involvement. BUT they need the limits managed better than in the 60s and 2000s have shown.
Now if NHRA just will really LISTEN or THINK constructively all will improve.

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Miele (Post 215969)

Below is a list of ideas and proposals on how to join the old with the new and still make Stock a great place to race.

The ideas below are not all mine, they come from many racers.

I would like to here more input and suggestions. Please do not turn this thread into a NHRA bash. I would like to here constructive ideas. I would also like to keep this thread civil, if your going to respond in a discourtesy way please do not post.

1: New classes specifically for late model performance vehicles.

2: Proposed name, Late Model (LM).

3: Classes are for 2005 and newer vehicles. Designed to allow late model cars to advertise real horsepower levels and compete with one another while keeping the older cars relevant in the Eliminator.

4: Bringing factories into the sport to showcase what they sell.

5: Make it cheaper and easier to build fast stockers from street cars. Parts are readily available and a 2005 Mustang can be had for a little more than $10k.

6:Real horsepower ratings (2011 Mustang is 412hp, 2010 is 315hp, V8 Camaro is 435hp I think, etc.)

7: Inclusion cars like CJ's and DP's can race in Late Model, but with horsepower factored higher. Instead of 400hp say 600hp. The rating would be more realistic, the way it would be if you bought them as crate engines from their catalogs.

8: No "natural" class - let people put the cars at the weight they want for their engine hp

9: No automatic class. Sticks carry an added 50lbs, but they all are the same class.

10: Any auto trans allowed. The Jerico is basically a Ford toploader and everyone runs it so why not let Ford or Chrysler guys run a Turbo 400? The bellhousing are readily available and more than half the internals on the auto transmissions aren't stock anyway or use another brand.

11: Any custom piston allowed as long at is measures correctly. Seems silly if everyone is buying aftermarket pistons to worry about a list. If it measures correct then it's good.

New Class Ideas:

Lighter weight breaks so cars are safer and more relevant to what's on the showroom (Corvette has a 3200lbs 638hp car from the factory)
ALM - 5lbs
BLM - 5.75lbs
CLM - 6.50lbs
DLM - 7.25lbs
ELM - 8lbs
FLM - 8.75lbs
GLM - 9.50lbs

LM cars still have to run factory suspension and have limit on cam lift. These are not SS cars. Just a natural evolution of stockers to keep up with the times and availability of parts. Why should we pay the same amount of money for an inferior part?

The biggest problem with this is that it adds more classes. There are too many already. There hardly any heads up runs in the eliminator and many classes during runoffs are either unopposed or
have no competitors.

I would propose changing the weight steps between classes. .75lbs steps where they are currently .5lbs, and 1.5lbs steps where they are currently 1lbs. There should be fewer classes than there are now even adding the LM classes.

Another idea is crate engines. This could really keep costs down and make parts easy to find. The manufacturers have crate engines that are equal power for their circle track programs.

This could be a Super Stock item but in the spirit of keeping costs down Stock seems like a better fit. We'd have to factor the horsepower differently so they are competitive but this could jump start some cars where parts are expensive or hard to find as well as allow cars that are dialed in to get engines capable of making them faster for higher classes. The crate engines would be just like the car came from the factory with that engine and could go into any like make body.

These ideas allow older cars to stay out there and be competitive while at the same time allowing the new cars to flourish. If we can get corporate support and young people interested in racing affordably, we can make Stock and Super Stock like it was in it's prime.

Thanks for everyone's time.

Ken,

Thank You for model that could go a long ways towards helping the situation.

I might suggest that it be taken one rather huge step forward and insist for the future of the sport that more automakers products be added to the classification guide.

This would require more tech involvement and new knowledge, but the under 40 crowd isn't that driven to buy a camaro, challenger or stang.

Adding the performance cars from Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Mini, Mitsubitsi, Nissan etc could go a long ways towards gathering interest of the future crowd.

There are more than a few rear wheel drive cars in there that would make very interesting race cars. And a late model FWD car could be down right cheap to do if the HP factor wasn't too onerous.

Just my two cents as I reflect on the good the bad and the ugly of the situation.

I think that stock/superstock is the best car show on earth, but in that lies the problem.....car shows are often antiques and I would wager that 70% of stock/superstock cars are indeed older than 1985.

Eric Merryfield

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Apply correct HP ratings to the new cars.

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

Ken, I asked this question in another thread with no reply. You were at the Grove, did nhra have the so called meeting where they said they were going to ask racers to sit in on this subject ? (as per Bobby Bennett article) No one has said weather it happened or not. If nhra wants to showboat the new cars they need to be called FX so they dont confuse the people watching any more than they are. 4 or 5 classes more will not make a difference and as fast as they are it will show up in hp increases faster by making them run each other. If its not done there will be more cars for sale and people sitting out next year,

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

I like some of the ideas here, putting the new cars in their own class seems cool so the factories can advertise this new cars. As for the person that said about the under 40 crowd not wanting a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger. As I member under 40 I would love a Challenger and think the new muscle cars a sweet, the problem is there really isnt a foreign company competing with them other than the 370z. I dont think NHRA listens to the racers, the fans and sponsors maybe the only ones to get Glendora to listen. More heads up stock and super stock racing would be great for everybody. I do enjoy bracket on the big level, but I would like to see the Challengers and Mustangs just fight it out and see who is better isnt that what these cars were for in the first place. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

FX is the logical class designation. Let them race in stock and show case them in a separate eliminator at National events. With all the buzz around these cars, I can’t understand why NHRA hasn’t seized the opportunity to showcase these cars. Factory Top Stock. Pro Stock the way it was meant to be.

Re: Stock and the late models, a solution.

I agree with Jim Carter---100%!!!!! They should be classed F/X or L/M or whatever you want, but they are not stockers!!!!!!