Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Hadtobethere, comon ol buddy I took care of the 402 years ago and it just keeps coming back! LOL How about this: 396/375 cast@ 395......402cast@400.....396 alum@405......428/367@390. Should make for some good all out class racing. Where is Farmer when you need him?

Jeff, yea lets lynch em!!!

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

What happened to the new AHFS rule about the average being lower for a large number of cars with the same combo as compared to a single combo car? I thougt NHRA made that change this year? Or was it recinded? I'm way to old to keep up with the AHFS.......of course, Jim, you knew that already.LOL

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Oh, that's the way it works Keith, the MORE cars running a combination the LOWER (less under the index) their average has to be for them to get HP. The FEWER cars running a combination, the HIGHER (more under the index) their average has to be for them to get HP. :eek:

Not that Keith really needed it explained, it's more of a joke between us as we've discussed this several times. It's always the reason I give him when he asks why we don't run the 396-375.:D

It does not seem to be so equitable a situation. But the neither is a single person, or a "HP committee". Introduce the human factor, with politics, friends vs. enemies, grudges, and possible factory pressures, and you have a mess.

So a more popular combination, even though not as fast as a less popular combination, is more likely to see a heads up run (because there are more cars running that combination), there for needing to go fast more often and hurt their average, will get HP easier and sooner. Where as a less popular combination, even faster than the more popular combination, is less likely to see a heads up (because there are fewer cars running that combination), there for not needing to go as fast as often, will take longer to get HP, and will get less HP each time unless they go 1.4 under, even though it is a faster combination with a softer factor.

This thread is a perfect example. The 396-375, with or without aluminum heads, is one of the most popular combinations in Stock, period. It's in 67-69 Camaros, Chevelles, and Novas and runs in AA thru D in most cases. Now, there are cars and combinations that will easily go faster than the 67-69 396-375 cars and combinations. But not nearly so many. So, barring someone accidentally triggering an automatic hit with a 1.4 under pass, odds are the 67-69 397-375 combinations will be hit several more times before the faster combinations with fewer cars.

To be even close to fair, NHRA needs to either make the average required to cause a HP hit the same for everyone, at the very least, or swap it around so that a combination with more cars must average farther under the index than one with fewer cars.

It's just another one of many screw ups and loop holes in the current AHFS setup. And why the AHFS doesn't REALLY work like it should.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Alan
Don't run Stock but the AHFS is an interesting topic and I do try to make sense of it so I have been following this thread. Agree with most of what you stated above, especially the human factor. One point I question is your belief that the more cars in a combo, the more heads up runs. I don't think thats true. Its the total class population that dictates the number of heads up runs not a combo population. A B/SA Camaro has no more chance of a heads up run than a B/SA Cuda but there are a lot more Camaros than Cudas.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

But since there are a lot more B/SA Camaros, there's a far greater chance a B/SA Camaro will be in a heads up than a B/SA 'Cuda. It's pretty simple really. It's hard to find a field WITHOUT a B/SA Camaro, or for that matter, two of them. If you have a field of say 80 cars or so, and there are 3 B/SA Camaros, and the normal 1 or less B/SA Cuda's, which is more likely to get a heads up, A Camaro or THE 'Cuda? Or maybe I've got that figured wrong.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Alan
Your right. Odds are the same for the Cuda and any one of the Camaros, but since there are more Camaros odds of a heads up run for a Camaro are greater.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Keith, you know what the bottom line is.....the AHFS does not work and who really understands how it really works or is suppose to work?

Some cars get a hit for running fast, think about that...is not running fast what drag racing is suppose to be, not to have a penalty for hard work, or being a bit sharper.....Farmer once threw me out at Indy, I then pointed out what was wrong with the hemi car he had just passed, with the stroke of a pen I was back in, LOL

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

The odds would be the same. If you have four cars in a class all cars have the same odds of drawing a heads-up run.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Yes, but if there are three Camaros and one 'Cuda, as in this example, it is three times more likely that ONE of the THREE Camaros will get a heads up than the ONE 'Cuda. Simply because there are three times as many Camaros in the field. Any ONE car has the same odds as the rest. But the GROUP of THREE has higher odds AS A GROUP than the single car.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Look At The Qualifying....lol

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Didn't see your name on the qualifying sheet...I guess only the fast cars went to Englishtown

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Another asshole with no name talking smack. I was pointing out that they could have saved their combo but decided to go fast instead, but as usual another douche bag has to make a stupid comment, by the way I dont race a car, but I am friends with Dave and Peter. I will be at Etown on Saturday morning If you have a problem with my post.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

1 1134 G/SA Tom Kreeber, Rensselaer NY, '67 Barracuda 11.064 12.30 -1.236
2 1044 A/SA John Shaul, Fultonham NY, '64 Fury 10.071 11.30 -1.229
3 1013 B/SA David Ficacci, E. Hanover NJ, '69 Camaro 10.341 11.55 -1.209
4 1798 H/S Evan Smith, Linden NJ, '93 Cobra 11.098 12.30 -1.202
5 2 B/SA Peter Biondo, Maspeth NY, '69 Camaro 10.378 11.55 -1.172

I'm not sure, but do these run's kind of negate this thread? :confused:

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

No...the thread started out to save the iron head...

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

No matter what happened here at Englishtown, the Aluminum head could not be saved.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Hey Mark Faul, did we get the run in A/SA that we needed?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I guess only a few 396 guys actually have a RACE CAR. It's not like trying to negitiate a tough course here, stage the car, matt it to the floor, let AHFS do the rest. Quit lifting and RACE the car! Sorry, AHFS just PO's me.

Welcome to the club, AHFS sucks!

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Did Richards save the combo when he put his car in "SLUG" mode?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Thats what I'm trying to find out Larry. From what Mark Faul originally posted on here was that we needed one run in A/SA that would be slower than .83 under to dodge a hp. hit. But Mark hasn't replied.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I believe that what Gary Richard ran in E-Town should have saved the iron head from getting horsepower to offset the one race "average" in A that Clark had in Pomona
Thank you Gary for running your C car in A! And thank you Dave for making Gary aware of the problem, also with your victory in SS!

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

The "powers that be" can and do read this. They understand what some people are forced to do in order to protect a combination.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Sorry clutch man, just spoke to Wesley. Iron head is safe at this first half adjustment.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Mark,
Any feedback from Wesley on the alum. head?
Thanks Jim.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Jim, He told me the aluminum head would be getting an adjustment. He didn't give numbers, but I would guess 5hp. There were too many fast runs to save it this late in the first half. We should have thought of this plan earlier.