Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Dere NHRA,

I hav bin reeding on a internett forum that peepel ar cumplaning bout other peepel goin too fast, and gittin hit with horspower ratins. Sum of them say to lift and then cumplane bout it being a performunc based class. Sum tawk bout pretectin there combo, why, is it wurth alot of muney. Sum want 2 go fast but ar fraid to do it and then they cry. Sum say too lower the index, but whut hapens if they do and they stil go 2 fast, do U lower it agin until they ar happy. I here bout a triger, is it like a gun triger that needs to bee put to there head or is it the name of a horse who needs power.
I jus dont understand why so much cryin an finger pointin. plese NHRA stop this crazzyness. why dont you jus git rid of them trigers so noone can cumplane anymor and then they can go fast like they shud in the first place. thnk yu.

sined
mister common sens

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

My last post was supposed to be quoting a previous post from another member & was not my original post. Sorry SS Engine Guy,my mistake.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

mister common sens,
Coongrats!!! Gret uss ove ur Inglash langwige. I stel do knot get it.Kud U git to tha point?
:~)

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

I feel compelled to reply to Mr. Worner's comments, only because of how it was said.

Last year he or his brother cornered my daughter one time at the races when I mistakenly went more than 1.15 under and proceeded to tell her what they thought.

Now 1 year later I have two phone calls telling me it is on the internet that I have upset Mr. Worner. Several times at the race track he could have told me face to face what he thought but didn't. I have the most respect for his dad and probably raced him many times before he was born. It is just too bad he did not inherit his dad's integrity.

For most people who know me, I have run GT/BA just so the system would not give the LT1 horsepower and got beat two times because of that.

We are running on a seven year old system when there has been a 40-50 horsepower gain on almost any engine out there. The system is a deterrent on making cars run faster in a performance class.

I will say two more things: 1. I am 64 years old and this is the only hobby I have had for the last 40 years. I have always done it with my family. I can probably only do this for a few more years, no matter how goofed up the system is. 2. Now that Mr. Worner has shot off his mouth indirectly again, I will let my car do the talking from here on out.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Adger, mister common sens is not very proficient at the English language, but I will attempt to answer your question. I believe what he was trying to say was to get rid of the trigger so that everybody could run it all the way out without being penalized.
A couple of years I recieved HP for what Clayton Wright and Dick Moreland did at Atco. Before that, I had been persuaded by friends to put my car on a diet so I removed alot of weight in alot of different areas. Thanks to Clayton and Dick I had to put all the weight I had pulled out back in. The day prior to them setting the record, Dick called me up and informed me of what they were planning to do at Atco and what my thoughts were, if they should go for it or not knowing that there would be a HP adjustment to my car, even though I have a smaller carb. My response was "go for it, records are made to be broken, we are in a performance based class" I was not upset with them and congratulations go to them. Maybe some of this camaradarie should be applied in other classes.
If you got a fast car you should be able to go fast.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA 6 HP hit

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Guys & great friends I go to breakfast or lunch with here in sunny Arizona:
Kip Martin holds the SS/L record. He's been #1 qualifier several times this year. He's set and reset the record a few times in the last couple of years. He just received a weight penalty of 4 #'s on his 289. Some were mad at him. He says he's sorry but he's 64 and this could be his last hurah in a very respectable tenure in both Stock and SuperStock. He also builds his own engines and has won one NHRA national events. He raised two boys who are respectable engine builders for Reher Morrison pro-stock division.
Neil Smedley. He's had several record setting, #1 qualifying cars also in his outstanding tenure in NHRA drag racing. Most notably he has been very successful in his path with turbo stockers in the last few years. He also has won an NHRA national event after being #1 qualifier and winning class. I probably owe more to being involved in class racing to him than anyone else. He once lived a few blocks from me. He's about 16 years my elder and taught me a lot. Mostly about NHRA politics (nothing has really changed over the years).
Don Kennedy. Probably the worlds fastest Pontiac SS (NHRA verified that is). He's taken a combo and refined it with more testing on a yearly basis than most racers do in 5 years (or more). He's goal on every pass: "rotate the earth" as he puts it. He's also traveled the country racing and can prove to the doubters that altitude corrections are factored correctly.
Dana House. Has taken the 402/350 Nova from "it won't work" to top contender in D/SA after years of heavily budgeted sweat.
Dwight Southerland. He'd go to lunch with us but Arkansas is a little way's away. But we talk on the phone a lot.
Al Corda. He's a nice guy. Really. The rest of you just don't know it yet!
What do we all have in common? We all race to the finish line under full throttle. We look for the last ounce of performance. We would never sandbag to get a better average for the AHFS. And if we get hit with HP, looks like we did a good job. Well...maybe Al lifts a little. We're not sure about him...:o
I'll betch that our round table discussions are a lot more interesting about racing than who's selected as the "lay down" of the week. We're kinda proud of what we do...

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

The Hemi must start to look real good..after all you are 27hp under the E-body then instead of over...Yeah this system really work...when they decide to combine stick and autos...well...what a mess..

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

I agree with Scott. There is no reason any one "musclecar" platform should have any advantage with AHFS HP over another, i.e., "B"-body Road Runner, Charger, etc., over the "E"-body 'Cuda, Challenger. Furthermore, that would apply the same with musclecars like the Camaro, Nova, Chevelle, etc. If the OEM placed a musclecar engine in the platform, all is equal. The only variance perhaps is "sportscar" platform, i.e., Corvette.

The B-body MOPAR will perform equally as well in Stock with a 426 HEMI as a E-Body Challenger once shipping weights are taken in account for. NHRA has long established there are no considerations for ram-air systems in the vintage musclecars so that takes care of that argument. Same with the Camaro / Nova or Chevelle, Mustang / Fairlane, etc.
If one platform seems to be more effective in Stock, it just proves the right person hasn't been applied to the other platform in my opinion.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

but still we have to see an B-Body hemi to run as Henson did with the Challenger with even 20 hp reduction... remember when mr Lynch very rapidly brought the 402 Nova upp to 405(or was it more) and the Camaro stayed at 390..I questioned that and a Camaro owner said the "hood clearence" was not enough on the camaro(that was the body specific argument from him)..think i said something about that they weren't using the original manifold anyway anymore so the clearence thing was thier own choise..or something...well the Nova came back down to 395 pretty fast after Lynch stopped beating it...dont know how that worked...dont know how that part is outlined in the AHFS...think people and judgement are involved.. The AHFS killed the possibility for People to see HEMI Cuda's and Challenger in stock..now it looks that the 6-pak B-Bodys are going that same way but Shelby's and other are working the system...all because the non-involvement of skilled people..

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Henson went red, didnt scale, went fast and now he isnt racing....hmmmmmmmm.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Fred's new GTX car is very very fast.
Thanks

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Fred has had health problems and, as a result of medication he is taking, has been unable to get his license renewed. His car is fast and legal. So there's your hmmmmmmm.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Just curious,,,
Can anyone tell me why a Camaro/Nova/Chevelle are lumped together now, didn't used to be, and a B body Chrysler is different from an E body?
Hopefully I can ask a question on here without being called a crybaby...

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

JIM, that is a good question and that is why the AHFS is flawed, very flawed....why are HP factors not the same regardless of which body style or model when they all have the identical motor....

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Other than wheelbase and the body, they're basically the same platform. B & E body floors and structures all pretty much interchange, shelf headers are sold as B & E body units. E bodies have a slight rear frame angle difference butthat's not an issue on only 9" wide slicks. And even at 130-135 MPH, you couldn't convince me there's an aerodynamic advantage one over the other.
1970 - 1972 B body has Ram-Charger style option (flip up style) air-grabber if that's what you want. Of course the E body 1970-1971 have the shaker ot T/A & AAR hoods for fresh air induction. 1968-1969 B body's also have a weak flush mounted air-grabber induction but there were no E bodies in those years so comparrison is not needed.
So no, there's absolutely no reason one platform needs a 27 HP AHFS penalty. And I'm glad to hear Mr. Henson now has a 426 B body. I'm sure he and Mr. Holton will prove I'm right. 'Cause you guys don't lay down, right? :D

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

If the mopars been lumped together the average probably would been more favorable..in the thing that happened before...you could almost say the Iron Nova was saved by a Camaro...and the chevelle was just a byestander in that "race"(well he came up with the idea ofcourse) ..maybe the mopars would get the same chance then?

with that said..The guys still running all out must be commended for doing what this is all about..not the other way..i also understand the guys working hard to be the fastest just to be rewarded with more lead holding back..this continous adding weight has to stop somewhere..i hope that lowering the index with a keept trigger will show somewhat were the cars stand right now...this system has made all stay at -1.15(well not exactly all then)and i think it could be totally screwed between some cars and makes...it never seemed to be this much of a problem with the "old system"

p.s. before alot of people start jumping about lowering the index again..with comment like $$$-heads,bring stock valvesprings back,or so..this is the reality right now!..there are some combo's that are hard..i know...but they have to be lowered in hp then..not saved by an index!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

In a sport that is over populated with GM products there are still people that aren't happy unless a Ford product is factored out of competiveness.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Most of us do not own a wrench that will fit a Ford, much less the mental attitude to face one everyday.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Hey D-White, I have to face several of 'em everyday!!!!!!!!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Yup, Charlie-O, we know that. That's why you get a bit of "speshull" treatment, if you know what I mean.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

This could possibly be the NAIL that seals the B-BODY coffin!!!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Mr. Silveus........yes I do agree with you the system is outdated and enormous gains have been made......but don't go on here saying I have had the opportunities to discuss this at the track and didn't!!! Do you not remember both of us talking to you at length a few years ago at the gators when you first got this combo??? I remember it vividly since we were pitted right next to each other!

It seems both of us, Angelo and Mark Faul have all done everything we could to protect from getting HP! Believe me, Byron, Angelo and I could have bombed the combo on numerous occasions.....but didn't! Because we value the combo we have and want to be able to use it to our advantage when we have to. But what is the sense if we have someone in a class by himself who continually goes 1.20 under at national events???

Sorry if I offended you Jerry, I do respect you and your racing family! But I am still trying to figure out why this happened!! I know 4 hp will not slow you down that much and I hope you are still going to try to protect the combination as you told us you would. Since you made the statement you're going to let your car do the talking.......it doesn't seem like you care.

Bryan



Bryan

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Frank, from what I thought it was supposed to be last week was wheelbase, at least that was the answer we got as to why the Chevelle was lumped in with the Camaro and the Nova. The Camaro being 108, Nova 111, and the Chevelle 112. What is the difference in the wheelbase of the Chrysler B and E body cars?

Thanks,

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

116 inch B bodies, 108 and 110 for E bodies.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

I forgot.....Dodge B body is 117 inch. Its been awhile.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Bryan Worner, posted.
"It seems both of us, Angelo and Mark Faul have all done everything we could to protect from getting HP! Believe me, Byron, Angelo and I could have bombed the combo on numerous occasions.....but didn't! Because we value the combo we have and want to be able to use it to our advantage when we have to. But what is the sense if we have someone in a class by himself who continually goes 1.20 under at national events??? "

Sounds like you, Byron, Angelo, Mark, are all capable of bombing the combo. Who is the bad boy in your class, any of you, Mr. Silveus, or some other combo?

Why don't you petition to remove the trigger so you can run your car the way it should be run. I'm tired of hearing about people that say they can go so far under but won't because they are afraid of being hit with HP. PERFORMANCE BASED CATEGORY, my ***. Bunch of people laying low and saying it's strategy, or they're protecting their combo. Would'nt it be nice just to let it all hang out.

REMOVE THE TRIGGER

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Go fast

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

REMOVE THE TRIGGER

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Go fast[/QUOTE]


Ron.....I second that, all in favor, say......'EYE'

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Absolutely yes,remove the trigger.Let them run hard & add/remove horsepower as required.

"Eye" from this camp!

Lowering the indexes will NOT solve this problem.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Ron, the problem is the class average. I doubt that our overall engine average was a second under.....but since the review was triggered in one class, and that single class average was more than 1 second under in GT, we got 4 in GT only. It has been petitioned by a few racers that I know of to get rid of the class average, but I guess that didn't happen.

My feeling is we do need a trigger to eventually even combos out.....but like I said before, only counting national events isn't right because you penalize those who race often more than those who fly, but only go to a few nationals a year.

Like most things in life.....there is no simple solution!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

The class average darn sure needs to go! Bunch of bs...

Jim

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Ron.....I second that, all in favor, say......'EYE'[/QUOTE]

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Bryan- How bout the 350/295 that has received 17 hp in the last four AHFS reviews. All of this HP was done by GT/AA only. How fair is this system, when all of the competitors have to carry all that weight for a couple three retards!

Sean Cour

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Bryan- How bout the 350/295 that has received 17 hp in the last four AHFS reviews. All of this HP was done by GT/AA only. How fair is this system, when all of the competitors have to carry all that weight for a couple three retards!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

At a minimum the class average needs to go! I posted several months ago to lower the indexes 2 tenths, make the trigger 1 second under and the automatic 1.15 under.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

I heard NHRA will change the factors for SS/AH. The Cuda which is 108" WB will run @ 9.70 index, and the Dart will run @ 9.80 index because it is 110" WB. And they are gonna group all the six pack cars in one class including the 340 six pack. It will be SP/AA and will run on a 10.90 index and will run the same format as S/ST. The new three carb class will include the Corvettes and Pontacs and any other brand with three or more carbs. And anyone who steps on their car and goes too fast will be flogged in the scale area. The rack is being constructed now. And Ed O'Brian was hired as Public Relations Director for Stock and Super Stock. And the one second benchmark for hp has been eliminated. The triggers have been eliminated. Other than the classes mentioned above, there will be only one class RWYB/AA and just do what you want. All the tech people have been shifted to safety only items. Did I miss anything?

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Now thats funny!

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Ed, normally an Okie would get a 20% extra for displaced Native Americans, however Irish Americans don't get the 20. That being said you do get an extra 20% green beer once a month instead of just on St Patricks day. And since I'm in the great thought mode; Cajuns are displaced from Canada (sorta run out if you know what I mean), and now that the Canadian Dollar is worth more, who do I sue to get my fair share. Too much time on my hands. I think I will go put the motor in my car.

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

ed, those are beers need to be 16 ouncers in canadian money.

you all are too funny, jeff quit selling cars and go on the comedy tour !

jack

Re: 2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
 

Captain, good to hear from you. Ed, my favorite brand is OPC that is Other Peoples Cold. It's always good.