Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

'Scuse the hijack, but I saw that "Butch Ball" Pinto run at a points race in Marion South Dakota and it was virtually as fast as Buddy Ingersoll's car; 9.80s @ 134 mph, pulling the wheels on every shift of the Doug Nash 5-speed. I THINK Butch had the NHRA AA/MC record at that time. Impressive car...

Too bad NHRA killed those cars; they were among the most exciting and fun to watch I've seen in my 54 years of watching drag cars do their thing! If I were ever going to build a "nostalgia" car, that would be my choice...


Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Bill,
I know that Paul Canizzaro wrote that there were about 25 D/Darts built.

This is what I've dug up on the car so far. When my first one was registered with Galen back in 2000, it was one - of - six in his registry. He sent me a list of the VIN's and S/O numbers that were registered. The last number he had listed had a VIN ending in 937. In 2002 I bought "The Politician" from Al Adam. It had a VIN number ending in 888. So, 888-937 would be a 50 car build. The 417 in the S/O number indicates that the cars were built on Sunday, April 17th.

Since 1998, I have collected VIN and S/O numbers from 5 other D/Darts. All the VIN's and S/O's fall between the 888 and 937 cars. The number that I didn't include in my previous post was the Porach Dodge. The original owner had the paperwork from the car when he bought and raced it. The car is long gone now.

So I have 10 VIN's of cars that currently exist. I'm not sure if they were race cars or not.

D/Dart Race Cars of that time were:
The Politician (*)
The Bounty Hunter
The Coronet Dodge
The Suburban Dodge Boys
The Baby Goat
The Little Ram Charger
The Mount Vernon Dodge
The Porach Dodge (*)
The Newcomer
The Sam Brown Dodge
The "Big Bad Dodge" Jr
The Yakima Dodge

Plus -- A D/Dart owned by John Bedell - Pictures on the D/Dart website.

(*) -- Have the VIN numbers of these 2 race cars.

That's a total of 22 cars.................please feel free to add to the list of race cars. Please include stuff like car names, driver names, tracks raced at with - city and or state. ----- thanks in advance.

dart4forte,
Been following the build of your 64 Dart on FABO. Nice looking car. Still have the PM from that site on the D/Dart. Any help with the numbers would be appreciated.
Alan

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I didn't know Al had the "Politician". He also has another '66 that Ronn Eroh helped him build.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Al had "The Politician" stored at his mother's place in Reading for many years. That's where it was when I got it from him. I think he still has a purple 66 Dart that he races.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Yeah, I was referring to the purple car. He just got the motor back together in it and plans on running it the summer. Al & Carol are great people! I have the '64 Dodge he used to help with and occasionally drive for Ken Lau.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

That's a pretty convincing argument RE the 50 D Darts and how many were actually built.

I would like to see:

1. NHRA put these cars in the classification guide.

2,. Factor them down to the point that they can be competitive in Stock Eliminator.... probably a factor somewhere around 250...

Do I think this will happen?

If a Thunderbolt can run in a Stock Class, logic would say, "YES."

But then I have been watching NHRA since 1955, and I have yet to see them do ANYTHING that was even remotely logical...

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Bill,
I'd like to see them put the car in a stock class also. It was never ment to be run in a SS class. I'll have to get more info from Chrysler Historical on the cars and then approach NHRA on it. Maybe Chrysler could verify the numbers in between the ones that I have. I'd like to get then to verify that they were all white.

If I ever take mine to the track, I'd just run it at a test and tune night. It's only got about 370 miles on it and I'd hate to destroy it.

Alan

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I've never been really into restos, numbers, etc., but I'm under the impression that consecutive production numbers don't usually mean that they would have been similarly equipped. In other words, there could have been regular 6 cyl and 273 Darts mixed in with that particular group of numbers.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Myron,

Your point is well taken, but if they had a run of 50 IDENTICAL cars, (like a "fleet" order) wouldn't it just make sense to assemble them all at one time, since they had to bring that specific accessory/equipment package to the assembly line, anyway.

I'm not disputing what you say, it just makes me wonder why they'd choose to split up an order for 50 cars that were exactly alike in terms of equipment.

I'm just asking...

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Alan,

Good luck with this quest!

I'd love to see it happen, but if they don't come off this 275 HP figure and assign a realistic (250?) factor to these cars, it will all have been for nothing... My 2-cents.

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Bill, it does make sense to grab 50 in a row. But that could be an exception instead of a rule. I just don't know enough about the proceedures and hoped it would give people who do know more something to consider.

I'm pretty sure specialty cars like Challenger T/A's, Dodge Charger Daytona's, etc. were not sequential. But it would be interesting to find out how smaller runs of other special cars were done. (i.e.: '68 Hemi Cudas and Darts (they had VINs, didn't they?), the 383 Darts that Mr. Norm got and converted to 440s, aluminum-nosed cars from '64, etc.)

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Who knows why and how as its been a long time ago. In 1962 (1963 model year) Chevrolet assembled 25 1963 Z-11 Impalas. Then they assembled 25 more on a second run. Then when the racing ban was put into effect they assembled 7 more with the left over parts to use them up and yes it was an RPO (Regular Production Option) assembly. Some of the other manufactures pulled the cars from the assembly line and had an outside contractor finish the cars. Can we say Thunder Bolts, 1968 Hemi Cudas and Darts, etc.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Terry,

If there were 57 Z-11's built by Chevrolet for the 1963 model year, why were they never legal for Super Stock (they weren't, back then.)

It's been 46 years ago, and I frankly can't remember, so maybe the rule was for 100 cars built to be legal for S/S... but there weren't 100 '68 Hemi A body Barracudas built, and I don' think the Darts would fall under the same "umbrella," so that probably waan't the case.

Maybe you'd remember, or Chuck, or Tony Janes... it just escape me. Sorry for the hijack, but I've always wondered why those Z-11's were forced to run F/X.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

First thing would be to adjust the factor, 275 is pretty steep.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Bill....GM may have built all 57 by the time the winter Nationals was run but not enough were sold and in racers hands by then so they ran the ones that showed up with slicks in A/FX. The ones that teched in with 7 inch caslers were thrown into a made up class called L/P (Limited Production). Why they did that is anyones guess??? After the winter Nationals they all ran A/FX and the L/P class designation disapeared. Its been a long time (CRS setting in) but the reason is for them not running S/S was NHRA had a requirement of 100 cars min. to be built back then. The T-Bolts of 1964 were about 100 units and there were a couple of thousand Max Wedge cars built over the 3 model year time frame and thats why they could run S/S. You could get the Alum. front ends over the counter for the Mopars after Mopar said they had sold enough cars with the lite wt. package.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

The best the Politician ran in 1966 was a 12.92, the best MPH was 105. Here's a slip that I got from Ralph Costa a couple of years ago. It has Ted's notes on it.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Alan,

A thought on the actual production numbers: Since these were built in 1966, Chrysler should still have the IBM Cards for these cars, correct? I believe they offer that service on cars up to 1967? I would talk to Darrell Davis and see if you or someone else could possibly make a trip to Chrysler Historical to go through the files. This could answer your question about VIN's, Production Numbers, and Shipping Dealers.

Just my two cents.

-Steve

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Thanks, Terry..

You answered some old questions for me!!!

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

To put "how far we've come," into perspective, there's a 235HP 273 Valiant 2-door "post" running in Div. VI in K/SA that has run 12.0's (and, maybe quicker, by now), driven by Angela Bushmaker, daughter of longtime racer "WILLY B" Bill Bushmaker, a Seattle area Mopar devotee. I ~think~ Larry Hollums does the engine for that car. Dunno how much quicker it might go with the D-Dart mods, but it sure would be interesting to find out...

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I know Dennis quite well. I've asked about that D/Dart but he's doesn't have much to say about it. Dennis is a wealth of knowledge. I also know a guy here in Yakima that has the original SS Hemi Cuda that Hahn Motors ran back in the 70's. He know's the location of the original motor and is trying to talk the guy who has it to give it up.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I had a 66 273/4 speed car several years ago that I was going to do a D/dart clone. It needed a lot of body work and i ended up selling it to a guy in Nebraska. Bob Kropp was going back to Carlile with an empty trailer and hauled it back for me.
As far as the 64, It's coming along, still alot to do. I'll probly fire the motor when i get back from SpringFling. If I get to look at Butvh Balls car i'll try to get some numbers.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I just learned that the aluminum Edelbrock/Mopar- Performance aluminum intake manifold has been accepted by NHRA for use on the 235 HP "Commando" motor in Stock Eliminator.

That should make a positive change in the breathing, I would think.

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Looks like my stock in D4B manifolds has gone up

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Could not find reference to that in the engine blueprint guide. I wonder if that is for the 235 HP and 275 HP 273? And is that for the old D4B or MOPAR's newest intake (like the new one listed for the 2009 Challenger Drag-Pack with the 360 Magnum engine option?

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Is the HemiCuda the old Bob Norwood Car?? I lost track of the Hahn car when Bob started racing Alcohol Funny Cars --Bob must have lost his damn mind!!

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Great thought!

Let's get together and build 50 D/Darts and all show up at an NHRA meet, that would legitimize that car and have them mumbling to each other...LOL!

After all there are 10 times as many '69 Z28's running today than were ever built!

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I think so. I have a picture of him running it at Pamona. it was found ratholed in a barn in the lower Yakima valley. A canadian owns it now and is sitting awaiting restoration.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Jeff,

I got that information from an individual who is in a unique position to know. It may not be in the blueprint specs yet (I haven't looked today), but I imagine it will be soon. I don't know which manifold it is; I was told only that it is indeed aluminum, and has both Mopar and Edelbrock identification on it, along with a Chrysler part number. Sorry; that's all the info I have except that it's now on a currently-active 235hp K/SA car.

Bill

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I'll bet $10 that I can figure out who told you ???? WANNA BET ???

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

If I had my Nitro stats I could too! Probably the only K/SA 273 there is.
Bill, I sent you a PM.

Thanks,
Jeff Lee

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

With Nitro Stats you couldn't figure out who told Bill about the manifold ! :-)

I'll narrow it down to who I think gave Bill the info. He at one time raced a dragster out of the San Francisco Bay Area.
Can't be that many !! :-)

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Hmmmm....

Jim McClanahan???
"Terrible" Ted Gotelli???
Andrew Lee????
"Cheatin' " Chico Breschini"????

So many racers..... so many years.... :(

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

There is a D/dart for sale in the Mecum Auction.

It will be auctioned off on the 16th of May in Indy, there is a picture of ti on page 393 in the new Hemming's. A white GT with no hubcaps, the car is from the Ellis Collection (?)

If someone would go and buy it for me, I'll be your best friend!

Tree

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...D=SC0509-80169

Get your bidders card ready! Just can't imagine these sell for a lot of money. Restoration wasn't to the "nth" degree but with so few built, it's a sellers market; as long as there are buyers.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

HeyTree,
Believe it or not, that was the first D/Dart that I bought. Found it in the Nov. 1998 issue of Hemmings Motor News -- Pg 8759. A couple of us guys at the Chrysler Tech Center up in Auburn Hills, Mich had chipped in and bought a subscription to the publication and opted for the Priority Mail. It paid off for me. It was a mess when I got it and I was just going to make it a driver. That's why it has the incorrect engine in it now. I sold it 2 years ago to a guy that paid me what I wanted for it - unrestored. I talked emailed him a week or so ago about the car and he told me that Richard Ellis has the correct engine for it.

I bought Ted Spehar's old D/Dart back in Oct. 2002 -- 2 months before I retired from Chrysler. Al Adam called me up while I was working in the lab and asked me if I was interested in buying the car. I already had one D/Dart......what was I going to do with a second one? We were going to be moving down to Florida in a couple of months, our new home (and my garage) weren't done yet, we hadn't sold our house in Michigan yet, and "The Politician" is offered to me. I asked "The Wife" and she said that I had to buy it. She knew what a rare car it was. So I had two of them and a 1964 Belvedere that I was restoring that I had to ship to Florida.

So Tree, if your ever down on the Treasure Coast, let me know, I'll get Ted's car out of "The Wife's" garage and let you oogle it.
Alan

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Alan,

Does the one that's for auction have all the correct parts?

If I visit ya gotta take me for a ride.

Good luck with the '64, mine is a Savoy set up for B/SA with low compression Max Wedge......415hp.

Tree

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Tree,
Can't say for sure what the guy is going to include in the auction. All I can say is, I know what wasn't on the car when I sold it. And, it is a very, very solid car. If someone buys it and needs to know all the "special" parts that are on a D/Dart, they can contact me.

My 64 Belvedere is a 2 door hardtop, 426 street wedge, 4-speed, bench seat. It's red over white with a red interior. It's about 50% restored. I work really slow.

As long as it's not early in the morning, I can give you a ride around the block. The car has open headers.
Alan

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

Alan,

This car has obvious modifications: disc brakes, proportioning valve, dual master cyl., and air cleaner....no telling what kind of carb is under there.

What do you think it's worth?

Got all my money tied up in the Max Wedge but I would like to know what it might go for?

Tree

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

I can't imagine a car like that with incorrect engine will go for much more than $20K. And my bet would be high teen's. This is the Mecum auction so the cars have reserve pricing. I'll bet the owner thinks more of this car than any buyers and it will be a no sale.

Re: Whither 1966 D Darts for Stock
 

When I sold the car, I sent the original engine (on a pallet) with it. I kept some parts off of it that my other D/Dart was missing.

When I sold the car, it had 4 wheel drum brakes. I put the duel master cylinder and the Wilwood proportioning valve on it because I was going to drive it on the street. I did not drill holes in the inner fender to mount the proportioning valve. I made a bracket and attachet it using the wire harness clip holes. It could be put back to stock without any problems.

I will say that the car is really solid and not a rust bucket. The guy that I sold it to has some really high dollar cars (WO's, RO's, Max Wedges and AFX'ers). I'm sure that he used a first class restoration shop.

I don't know what the reserve is but I'd venture to say --- over $50,000. I believe there were only 50 made and only 10 exist according to my records.

I started looking for a D/Dart back in the late 80's. This is the first and only D/Dart that I've ever seen go up for sale. I think those that have then sell them to friends or private collectors. As I said before, this car was advertised in Hemmings back in 1998. I've never seen another one for sale. And I really regret selling it but, I knew it would be restored right by the guy that I sold it to.

Maybe the guy should give me a commission......

Both of the D/Darts that I've had, had the original engine blocks in them. The casting number is 2806030-3 and cast on 2-28-66. Stamped on the pad on the front is what appears to be R-273- 4-26.

Alan