Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Dill Dedman! Check the NHRA guide for 67 Ply or Dodge B Bodies which are Belvedere's or Coronet's W/HEMI's Wfa they are rated at 430HP , vs 425 for Non fa HEMI cars, i' m pretty sure. John Lang

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Okay, John... I'll check that out. Thanks for the tip. I figured I'd miss some... NHRA is nothing if not inconsistent.

Bill

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Adger,

That's a very sharp observation on your part, about the shipping weights. I guess I just figured that since you can add or subtract weight to move up or down a class (from the "natural" class,) that it wouldn't matter. My bad...

Thanks for pointing that out; it is certainly a valid consideration! I should have looked before I leapt... LOL!

Bill

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Now all of you guys that have been keeping those classic AMC "Pacers" stored away can install a street Hemi and go racing.....lol.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

It makes a difference in some factors, if ram air or not.
These are for the 1999 Firebird with the GM LS1 engine in GT:


Flat Hood: Ram Air:
Factory: 305hp 320hp

GT Stick: 305 320

GT/Auto 305 324

This past summer they gave the GT/Auto LS1 ram air cars 4 hp, not to the others.
The rest are the factory ratings.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Adger
Don't understand your statement about being in the botton or top of a class with the original car. Just like with the original car the GT car can go to the top of the existing class, one class up or one class down. I'm building a 68 Hemi car and will likely run the 70 300hp 383. That puts me in GT/E. But I can go up to D or down to F Just like the normal SS cars can and I can hit the min weight for all three classes. Can you give me an example of a car that the original shipping weight would make it a disadvantage to put in GT. A made up example is fine, I'm just not following your train of thought, but I've been off track before.

Jeff
I've thought about the 383 2X4 but was told by NHRA no go because it was not an air car. Smaller exhaust valve but the tall intake might be interesting. The Hemi intake is 9-10 inches tall so the 383 could be a little taller. Not quite to tunnelram height but close.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

And then there were three, Stewart with me & Hale. Gonna be a popular class.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

It's not like picking a Modified class and running @ 9. lbs per cu in. where you adjust weight to the top.You are using both the factord Hp on car & the engine combination.
Even if the car fits in a class you can't adjust the weight more than 250 lbs from the original shipping weight of the original car with the heaviest V-8 power & it's factored HP. What is generally forgotten is the original weight for a GT car is figured from the heaviest V-8 combo in the class guide, not the combo you start with. Even though a car/ combo fits in a class the weight you have to run it at is not always at the top of the class. Say a car tops out at 9.33 with the 250 weight out of the original heaviest V-8 shipping weight. Then you are going to have to run it at 9.33 not the top 9.00 when you figure the weight of the combo. I know it was very confusing to me until I studied it.Almost as confusing as the AHFS... :~)

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Adger
In my situation with a 300 hp engine if the car was at 9.33 with 250 lbs out I couldn't legally get there. At 9.33 and 300 hp that would be 2800 lbs. Adding the 250 lbs back would bring you back to the original shipping weight of 3050. So with 300 hp the car would be 2850 at 9.5, 3000 at 10 and 3150 at 10.5. If you lower the HP you fit the classes easier because you have to remove less lbs to change class. Even if you raise the hp to 400 you can still fit 3 classes. Shipping weight in that case would be 3982 ((400 X 9.33) + 250). D would be 3800, E at 4000 and F at 4200. But now you are starting with a shipping weight of 3982 and I doubt anyone would do that in GT. I don't think there is a combo where there is a problem getting to the min weight in 3 classes that has a realistic shipping weight.

Jeff T.
When I told Warren Barnett I was going to do my AH type car and put it in GT with a 383 he said something like " who would ruin a good Hemi car by doing that". Imagine my smile when I was able to tell him Hale had done it and then this week being able to tell him you are doing it. I'll be watching because mine is still a ways away. Unless you use the 440 and send the 383 to Atlanta.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Lets title this thread...."How To Dishonor The Hemi Legend."

The Hemi Shootout was a great game while it lasted. Lots of money spent by people who wanted fame. What a shame to see traditional hemi cars downgraded. Maybe SS/GT should be allowed Pro Stock hood scoops so we can move on to the next class destroying rule change.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Well Jason, in my shop today are 4 SS/AH Cudas and one lonely clone that will run GT. Sorry I dishonored the hemi cars.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Well,
Looks like things have changed. Guess I need to study the system again. New GT 101 class. Take a look at the 2009 rule book. Pages 113 and 119.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Jason
Since my car never was a hemi car I guess I haven't broken tradition. This has been allowed since 2006. Can't be any worse than a Cobalt FWD conversion with a 350 in it. Talk about a tradition breaker. But they don't have hoodscoops.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Everyone realizes that very few "original" 68 Hemi cars are being raced in SS/AH. Besides, everyone knows why some are giving up and putting other engines in SS/AH bodys. It will surely be happening more and more.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

No those pages refer too traditional SS. Not GT. Gt weight rules are on page 124 and are like you stated prior.


For example:
1968 Plymouth Barracuda for GT
Shipping weight would be 3254 Got to use heaviest wt with V8 engine and same style (Fast Back) which is the 383 version.

Shipping weight can be adjusted 250 lbs + or -

So if you use a engine factored at 300 hp lightest class would be GT/E(10.0-10.49). 3254-250/300= 10.01 power to weight factor. Minum weight for GT/E would be 3170. 3004lbs +170 for driver. Rounded down for scale weight to 3170.

Heaviest class @ 300 hp factor would be 3254 + 250/300 = 11.68 p/w factor. which would be GT/H (11.50-11.99) Minum would be 300 hp x 11.5 +170= 3620.

So in the above example the cuda could run GT/E @ 3170, GT/F @ 3320, GT/G @ 3470, & Gt/G @ 3620.


Where some cars run into problems is when they fall into the middle of a class. Then they can not go to the the min.

Also some older car styles that came with Big blocks have very heavy GT shipping weights. For example 1st gen camaros and 2nd gen & 3rd gen corvettes.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Shipping weight for the 68 Race Only cars is 3020. Then redo your figures and you will arrive at the correct weight. Adger and Just Observing are using the formula correctly.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

If you have Microsoft Excel, download

http://www.employees.org/~bhracing/g...ulator_1p2.xls

Plug in the shipping weight for the car from the NHRA classification guides and the factored HP of the engine you want to use and it will tell you which classes it can run and what the min weight is for each class.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Thanks Dave & Just O,
Like any good student I was checking the '09 rule book to see if what I had studied was changed. Looks like I made the mistake of reading SS rules instead of GT. I'll blame it on the season... Too much Ham & Turkey made my eyelids heavy & I didn't see what I saw correctly. :~) I'll retract my last post.. But Dave you are supposed to use the heaviest V-8 car weight for that year & model not the Hemi car they are using. I see no need to refigure... Just O has it right.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

One important thing here since we are talking about a Specific Car ; The 68 Cuda GT did NOT come with a Race Hemi lift off hood or the rest of the lightweight goodies.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Dave, Are the race only Cudas (with all the trick parts)legal with another motor as a GT class car then?

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Dick
The 68 AH car has been running for months as a SS/GT car so that should answer your question. James Hale has his running as a SSGT/EA. Yes, with all the "trick" parts. Even been pictured on this site thru a link.

Dave
What are you refering to as a 68 Cuda GT? Don't remember that one . All I remember is the Barracuda, the Formula S Barracuda and the Race Hemi.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Stewart and Dick,
I was refering to the figures in post# 56 in this thread . I meant the S model but have no idea why I typed GT. I am reserving any more answers on this matter as the very subject here is being discussed within . This situation has caused a few questions for us " Tech Inspectors" that need to be addressed after the holidays.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

A couple if items in this discussion. A 68 Cuda with a 70 383/300 in GT/E (10.00 lbs per hp) or a 70 Cuda in SS/IA with same motor 10.00 lbs per hp. The 70 runs SS/IA Index 11.00 The 68 runs GT/EA Index 10.95. Now class let us observe the same two cars, but with a 440/356 motor. The 70 runs SS/HA Index 10.90 and the 68 runs GT/DA Index 10.80 index. Any penalty is already applied for a better body (???) in GT as was the original intent. I think there was a .05 +/- in the original caluclations years ago. The original intent was to compensate for 'slicker' bodies. The addition of the older cars just makes the class more versatile. I knew I was running a penalty when I started the process. But before I spent a dime, I checked with Div 4 Tech to make sure the car was ok for SS GT. And as for some SS/AH guys bailing out, I'm sure that will happen. Mother Chrysler has more on her mind now than Hemi Shoot Outs. I don't know if anyone works at MP anymore. If they pull, that will certainly hurt the shoot outs. As for us we will probably have one shoot out car this year, one bracket car, and a backup. I don't know if we will try 3 in the shootouts this year, but then again it is early.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Welcome to the new class race fans.........SUPERGAS/GT

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Just observing
Question on which car weight should be used for the AH/GT car we have been discussing. You say you have to use the heaviest car weight that came with a V8 with the same body style, ie fastback Cuda. The rule book on page 124 states "Shipping weight will be determined by using the power to weight factor of the vehicle with the heaviest gasoline engine". Doesn't say heaviest car, but heaviest engine. Wouldn't that be the Hemi.
Sure hope NHRA doesn't change their minds again. Last car I started building was a 68 Cuda for SS/B and they removed them from SS/B before I was 1/2 done. Thats about where I am now so I guess its time for another rule change.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

If your building a clone of the 68 race Hemi Cuda or Dart with all of the light weight components(ie Glass front end and hood, etc.) use that shipping wt to figure your class. Whats so hard about that? Its 3020 as Dave Ley said. IF it is a regular big block 'Cuda then use the shipping wt. of the all steel car with a big block.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

I agree, I just hope thats the verdict out of California.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Thats a good point. It will be interesting to see what Tech says!

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

I wish it was that easy. This is NHRA after all !! LOL

I know if you were going to run a SB in a 68 camaro in GT you have to use the Big Block (Heaviest) shipping weight to figure class.