Re: GM axes performance division
 

>> Lyons writes: Its not ALL the car companys fault. The $4 a gallon gas kinda exposed a flaw in the plan.

That's true, I agree. There was no reason for fuel to go that high in the first place, and it was one of the many cards that got kicked at the bottom of the house of cards that had been built for us.

>> Williams writes: If you think for a minute that GM going under won't effect your life then you have not looked at all the facts.

I understand that. It would. You've generated an argument that I didn't make in the first place. GM *not* going under would affect my life, too.

>> Does anybody realize the impact that the Mortgage, loan and banking industry has on the economy? 700 billion and 150 billion for a total of 850 billion and it was given to these people without question.

Yes! And many people fought tooth and nail against that mockery as well!

>> But where is the complaining about the mortgage, loan and banking people? I am not hearing how our lives are better because of their failure.

We've BEEN complaining! (the discussion has been taking place far longer and is much larger than this single discussion thread) There's no way to address your second part because the banking industry wasn't *allowed* to fail. It is being propped up. (with money that we don't have) Actually, these banking practices that were set into motion in the '70s never should have been allowed in the first place. Just another part of the house of cards.

>> the money for the Big Three is not a bailout like the banking industry. It is a bridge loan.

Yes, I know that. Sorry for using the popular semantics. It wasn't used to mislead anyone. I think most people understand that it's a loan. (made with money that we don't have) Bad businesses practices are still bad business practices, and we're going to give them more money before it's all over with. Unlike the loan to Chrysler years ago, I'm not optimistic about getting this money back. The interest on our national debt alone is going to bury us, and rampant inflation is coming around the corner.

Don't assume that because I didn't write an 1,100 pg dissertation (don't worry, Congress doesn't read anything that long either) and quantify every statement and mention every single angle on every economic-related topic that I'm ignorant of them.

It *is* okay if we disagree, but understand that I do have a rational basis for thinking the way I do, just as you do.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

I pay an extra 5 bucks for your oil filters now, because you do support us. Did really read my post at all? Thanks for supporting drag racing!

I will support the companies that support this sport. I do not wish to see GM fail, but I make a lot of my decisions based off of this. I don't think you should be criticizing someone who just said they buy your products now for those reasons.

The reason GM is going under is because they don't make a very competitive product anymore. All of the automakers are suffering, but there is a reason that GM and Chrysler are on the verge of bankruptcy and others are not. Correct me if those statements are untrue.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Are you related to "Babe Ruth"??? I ask because you hit this one out of the park in CENTER FIELD!!! Since I work for a parts supplier for AC Delco, nothing has bugged me more than delivering said parts that were not made in America (or perhaps Canada), like they should've! I bet those GM Exec.s sure enjoyed those extra profits they earned once they were able to start enjoying greater profits, due to their reduced production costs...what about us consumers? You know what we got, and do they make shoes that big???

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Yeah, and they talk about free trade, when a Japanese envoy from Washington even wrote an article that was in the Denver "Rocky Mountain News" (plus other national papers I'm sure), talking about the bureacracy of trade within Japan...which cause American/European vehicles sold in Japan to be hit with enough penalties to be double (or more) the cost of a comparable Japanese home-grown vehicle...what happened to our tariffs???

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Michael Beard-Thanks for your reply and I see that we do have some common ground, NO ONE has been complaining about the banking business as far as I've seen here.


Sean, I got just a few choice words for you-You my friend are what my Grandmother from the Old Country used to say and it might lose some in translation-Arre thiiesnn tu bient!

You are an incompetent fool who sucks on donkey ***! Hate to say it but you don't represent DIV 6 well in any respect. Shut your piehole Sir as you are digging yourself a hole that cannot be dug out of. You have no idea what this is all about. Go play with your mini van OK. A competitive product? You my friend are an uninformed bunghole.
Look at sales figures for North American Vehicles. I rest my case.

Have a nice day

Steve Williams

Re: GM axes performance division
 

not only that but I think he's thinkin of the other Steve Williams, races the K&N super comp car on the west coast...

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Guys:

Being the old timer that I unfortunately am now, I believe the main problem with
the auto companies is too many Americans buying foreign brands.

Now before anybody starts making excuses let me say a big part of that is the
American Manufactures drug their collective feet too many years on quality.
However the past several years they have made dramatic improvements.

Yes, there are other problems also but I said the main problem.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

I've been following this thread for a couple days now. All this bail out money makes me sick and then I look at what my 401K has done. WOW, I get very sick and want to drink a beer to calm down.
WELL, Here's the icing on the cake.
Kentucky just passed a 6% sales tax on liquor that will go into affect April 1, 2009. A 30 pack was $18.50 before the announcement of the tax. Since it has passed but before enactment beer has gone to $23.00 (in the last week).
Looks like the beer companies are learning tricks from the gas companies.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Taxes on former and non racers who come on here and try to change S/SS shold be imposed at a
per post rate.
Last time I looked liquor and tobacco products were n't against the law.Granted they aern't the best thing for your health(especially tobacco) but we were all born with free will to figue out right from wrong.
BTW I'm an ex smoker (cigs and cigars).

Ed F.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

That would just cause more social problems. Think about it.

The bailout deal for car companies or banks sucks. The car companies are victims of that previous deal. Going after the scoundrels that caused it is fairly easy, maybe not as easy as when they were in the White House.

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Shawn, I agree with you 100%! I'm the proud owner of a 2004 Chevy Colorado (tow vehicle), and a 1986 Chevy Cavalier Z24 (DF/S racer for the last 16yrs, and the last 12 with my Stock Eliminator rebuild!!!).

The race cars that got me well known in Colorado, and now Arizona include:

1976 Chevy Vega: 1977 King of the Hill HS Champion
5 bracket race victories from 6 final rounds at a former east Denver AHRA track
1979 Div. V Street Eliminator Semifinal

1973 Pontiac Ventura: 1981 Div. V Street Eliminator Champion
2nd place points finish at Bandimere Speedway 1981 (Street Eliminator)
1982 ET Finals Jackpot Winner
6th place points finish at Bandimere Speedway 1982 (Street Eliminator)

1985 Chevy Celebrity: 1990 High School Reunion Champion (at Bandimere Speedway)

1986 Chevy Cavalier Z24: 1998 & 1999 3rd rnd at Mopar Mile High Nationals
2002 King of the Track Winner, Pueblo Motorsports Park
2006 Quarter finals at Mopar Mile High Nationals
2007 LODRS quarter-finals at Div. VII race #2 Tucson, Az.
2007 Semi-finals @ Stock/Super Stock race @ Speedworld
2008 1/8 finals (4rnds) @ LODRS div VII race #1

Now hows that for American cars belittled by the car mags that paid grandly for me!!!

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Quack,quack,quack,quack,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,et c................................................. ..

Re: GM axes performance division
 

S E Buchanen, how are you man?! Longtime no see. I hope you're doing good :)

The Probe's hangin in there. I need to update a couple things, not sure how many I'll actually get to but I'll be runnin her again this year. :)

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Whoa down there! Like it or not this is a global economy. Likley 80% of the clothes you have on now while reading this are made in Asia or somewhere other than North America. The idea of having car plants in other countries is good for business. The trouble the domestic car companies arre having stem from more than any one specific source.
Just ask the new generation what they want to buy, likley they will tell you Honda,Toyota, Lexus,Mitsubishi,Mercedes. That thinking alone has taken its toll on the domestics.Alot of this thinking comes from the automotive media,they always seem to bash the domestics, even when they are the clear winner in some comparisons.The other part of that thinking is they want to be different than their parents who always had domestics.
Gas prices and insurance costs have not helped either.Try to insure a young male driver in a V8 Mustang or any of the same cars, you need to take out a new mortgage! I am from Canada, I do not work for any of the carmakers but in my business I do work in many of the plants. The quality of the work and the cleanliness of the plants is second to none!
Are there problems with upper management? I do not know for sure, I am not privy to that information. Do i think there is upper management problems? Yes there will be somewhere,any large corporation will have problems in management. All large companies have the "right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing" problems. But blaming where a vehicle is made or assembled is not the answer. Roger, I say this in the interest of good constructive converstaion, not as a personal attack OK.

Todd Melville
Melville Racing
1577 T/STK
1971 Boss 351 Mustang

Re: GM axes performance division
 

This is crazy comment

So you think they should have kept sponsoring and using more of yours and everybody elses tax dollars ? Come on man, talk real world

Racing is Secondary

Lift comes first, it is a life or death thing for GM

They had to borrow 9.4 billion in end of 2008 but spent 20 billion in motorsports ,,, hmmmmmmm.

Be real man

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Todd,

As someone who is involved in the "Global Economy" as it relates to textiles on a day to day basis I can tell you that it is one of the worst things that ever happened to "Main Street America". It is all about the bottom line. I for one would like to see real "Free Trade". What we have now is a joke. For the record, I was working full time in Canada when free trade killed the industry there in the early 1990's.

Daren

Re: GM axes performance division
 

A buddy of mine still wears his NAFTA t shirt that depicts an eagle screwing a beaver. Both Canadian and americans think they got the shaft.
I personally think the issue is the fact that every other country has a VAT (Value Added Tax) except the States and Canada on most products.
Example:

It cost $15,000 to build a car in north america and you sell it for $20,000 you make $5,000

In other countries though it only cost $10,000 to build, $1,000 to ship and sell for $15,000 making $4,000 and undercutting the very economy you ship to!

Here's what's worse, cost $15,000 to build in NA, $1,000 to ship to asia/europe and add 25% VAT = $20,000 which doesn't include any profit!! Remember they built for $10,000? That is one reason toyota shipped 1.3 million veh to the US last year and combined the domestic's sold around 400 vehicles in Japan!

Free market is great, however it's not a free market when other countries have "taxes" put on your goods and you don't on theirs.
Immediately, Canada and the US should put a VAT on products which brings the price of a product shipped into the country up to par with what it would cost to produce said product here. THEN it would be a pair of cars/pens/shirts for the same price and people would choose what they wanted. Would YOU choose a shirt from thailand with their quality/durability/materials if it cost the same as one made here?? I certainly wouldn't.
(As an aside, there is a 25% tariff on trucks imported to the US, that's why toyota built the truck plant in texas where they ASSEMBLE trucks not BUILD them)

Re: GM axes performance division
 

A VAT generally applies to all products sold the same as sales tax. In most countries that have a VAT it is added into the sticker price.


In regards to textiles, the imported stuff has been selling for the same price as domestic stuff for years and the public really doesn't seem to care where it comes from. Wonder where the extra profit on that overseas stuff goes?


You probably do it every day and don't even realize it!


The problem with this whole auto industry deal is simple. Nobody is buying cars. Why not? Because they don't have jobs. Why don't they have jobs? Because we have allowed our manufacturing jobs to go overseas. Look around at who actually buys American made cars. It's not the bankers or politicians for the most part. It has traditionally been the same kind of people who support NASCAR and the NHRA. What is happening there these days? Kill NAFTA and CAFTA and prosperity will come back to the USA. Instead it looks like I am fixing to get a 5% tax hike!

Re: GM axes performance division
 

Wow!!!!! and while we're at it lets double the tax on everyones second home, RV, Boat, Snowmobile,ect. Hey while we're at it lets really tax those idiots into the extreme sports that I'm sure land in the hospital quite often most likely with no insurance, we can go on and on. Yes I smoke and yes I drink and yes I pay alot of tax on these,not sure why some people jump on tobacco and alcohol as being this terrible evil that is such a burden to society. Did you watch Dragracing or Nascar when the Tobacco companies were footing the bill? Maybe everyone who watched should pay in to the tobacco settlements or we should tell Bud, Miller and all the rest ...No take your money and go away motorsports don't need your money. Hate it or like it Cigs and Booze are probably here to stay..at least for the near future. Please be careful what you wish for you may just get it...Joe More taxes is not the answer...less spending is!