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I sort of have to agree with Jack... How did this go from SRAC to doom and gloom? First of all, I was in Gainesville and I have to tell you that I saw the same thing Kenny did. Six, seven and eight deep at the fences and full stands. Car counts down slightly, but I think that's what we're going to see in the future. SRAC? Gotta agree that it sort of went downhill but I think part of the problem was they (NHRA) had good intentions but are now faced with survival. Bigger fish to fry kind of thing. Although I believe you still have to keep your sights set on the future and regardless of the fact we have been told the sportsman are financial losers, they are STILL the backbone of the sport and what it was built on. The SRAC has lost some of it's punch but when you want something done, "they" still return phone calls and are willing to listen. And like Kenny, I too like to drink from the glass and would rather think it's half-full, which it is. Don't put your faith in the what the media tells you. Cause there the ones who put us in the position we're in today.

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John,

Thanks for allowing Billy and me to use your computer. You have a very nice rig.

Just a couple of points of respectful disagreement. The car count was down over 20% (over 100 cars) from the already reduced quota. That's not a little bit. The back lots have been jammed full in the past and they were not this year.

The media, which you are part of, did not put us in the position we are in today. The media may be telling us about our problems on a non stop basis, but the media did not make the decisions that have brought this country to it's knees.

It's important to cautiously examine both sides of the coin when we are confronted with unprecedented financial pressures.

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John,

I thought I was imagining the crowds, thanks for telling the folks the same thing that I had seen.

Me and Bruce are totally on the opposite ends of what we see at the track. The quota might be off 20%, but the actual car numbers are only down 10% from last years gators. I don't think that is all the bad given the slower economy we have now.

As I said to Bruce in a email, examining both side of the coin is fine, but the majority feel the sky is falling. My view, like John's, is things are not as bad as we are lead to believe, and feel it should noted.

John, I have to plead guilty in taking this thread off topic. SRAC was something we needed, hopefully in the future it will be better.

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Remember Bruce.....Super gas was not contested....that contributed to the low car count......

and cut with the doom and gloom....

I agree with John.....

I still get plenty of SRAC questions....and they are answered quickly by NHRA....


Rock Haas

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CBS,
The reduced quota accounted for the dropped category. So they were still off over 100 cars and down over 200 cars from years gone by. And bye they are!

Cut with the doom and gloom?????

Kenny and I agree that these discussions are important for the racers.

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could it be the fault of those damn cobra jets? half full or half empty things are bad for some folks. others are doing better. could it be in their attitudes? i don't know. i think the media makes mountains out of negativity and sucks alot of people in it. everybody is worried about tomorrow, back when things were good they didn't seem to worry, just get another loan and buy something else they didn't need. now they have to pay for how they played.

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Alot of super gas cars entered in s/c. If I'm not mistaken, all the other sportsman classes were only 75% full or less. I think that counts as low car count. So the question is... has the SRAC addressed the issue of not dropping a class so maybe more cars that can't switch classes may enter?

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Partsbob 67,

On March 21, 08 I started a thread " According to Alan Greenspan", it had 57 replies and over 5,000 views. I don't think any of the Ford Guys or anyone connected to the CJ's were upset about that one. The thread won't open now for some reason, but my post basically stated that we should watch our money because hard times are coming. I don't think the thread was controversial - that was one year ago.

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i read that thread and i thought you were correct in your prediction.

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Alan,

You are totally missing the point. Just because someone does things you can criticize in hindsight, doesnt make you correct. Rick Waggoner himself said GM was making a profit on capital hill during the senate hearings before the current economic crises. So were a lot of companies.

It is credit driven. I would say well over 1/2 the people reading this thread dont have a credit score 750 or above. Doesnt matter if they build a ZL1 Camaros, if you cant finance it. How many have $30k to pay cash for a car? Not many.

Watch the credit loosen, and watch sales go back up. The liberal agenda to force the auto industry to build hybrids and left wing agenda products doesnt fly no matter how you prop it up. Surely you know that manufacturing can make a profit even though the company is writing it down?

If your wife is spending all your money doesnt mean your engine building business isnt making money. GM is undergoing global restructuring. It would take a book to write explanations. When I was working for Ford financial in 1999 they were making $10,500 on a Navagator and $5500 on a F150 pick up average. They lost money on every car. Want to know why they built SUV's and trucks?

Below is an explanation of what I am talking about.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...r/letter1.html

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I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but I can't help myself. I'm sure most will agree that 2006 was the pinnacle for the stock market and home values, with a good economy. Fuel prices were around $2.60, higher, but not $4.00. Well I looked up the numbers from the gators in 2006, 451 total car count, 2009, 424. The reason for the car counts being down from many years ago is there is one less class. Stock and Super Stock no longer run class together. I could easily see another 100 to 125.

I will keep looking for the bright side of things even though others may not see it. A good friend of mine once told me, "We are not here for a long time, we are here for a good time". Try to enjoy life and not dwell on the negatives, they will always be here, good times and bad times.

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Of course not except for the people who think the glass is half empty. I like better the people like Colin Wigle and Ken Miele who pefer to say the glass is half full. I more agree with the group of engineers who say you have the wrong size glass for the job. ;)

I love NMCA, NHRA, IHRA, and all racing. At Indy last year with all the GTAA guys we had the most fun we ever had. They hit us for 100lbs in Pomona, but we still had fun. Worst day at the race track is still better than the best day at work.

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Here! Here! "tip of the hat"

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Can't some of us point out a few civil facts about the general health of drag racing without it becoming doom and gloom? Are we so hooked on this sport that our lives turn to dookie if the performance industry flat lines?

Most of us have full lives outside of drag racing.

Houston Quota = 568
Cars entered so far = 362

Las Vegas Quota = 752
Cars entered so far = 417

I hope each and every race fills, but doom and gloom will not settle in over my life if they don't.

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I guess its my turn.

Houston last year.....305
Houston this year.....362

Las Vegas last year....370
Las Vegas this year....414

Bruce, a quota is what they would like, but they are not real numbers.
I think its obvious things are not as bad as people say. I feel bad when people are hurting, but I could give you many companies in the racing industry that are doing well and making money. I also do not see that flat line. I am busier then I have ever been. Right now the refinance industry is going nuts, soon they will be back logged with work. When one part of the economy goes down others go up. Hopefully people will be able to adjust or switch to the parts that do well. Housing is going to rebound and that will give this economy a good jump start.

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Lynn,
I'm not missing the point at all. If GM had been on solid operating ground and turning a good profit a year ago they would not be effectively bankrupt. And they are bankrupt, the only thing keeping them afloat is tax payers dollars, plain and simple. You know that the guy I race with is an automotive industry insider, and has been for a long time. The business model GM and Chrysler have been operating on is fundamentally flawed. Ford saw it coming and made more radical adjustments far sooner. That is why Ford is not bankrupt and GM is. Actual inside information about what is really happening shows the differences. Just operating differences, never mind the poor market decisions.

You can call it "hindsight" if you like, but when GM made the moves they made, or failed to make the moves it should have made, I called it then, it's just that you personally weren't standing there listening. That does not mean I'm not correct, and neither does calling it "hindsight." GM has screwed the pooch so many times in the last 2-3 decades it is no wonder they are in the shape they are in. I'm a die hard GM supporter, I do not now own anything that is not GM, and I haven't for 30 years. But I'm not so blinded by my loyalty as to not see pure stupidity when it is staring me in the face.

GM failed to make the necessary cuts and restructure when everyone saw this coming, and Ford did not. And it takes two hands to count the major market errors GM has made just in the last decade and a half. And they continue to make those blunders.

If GM was REALLY making such a solid profit, they'd have been in a solid financial position when the latest economic crisis hit, and they wouldn't be bankrupt and begging the government for tax payer's money to pay their bills and their employees.

Considering the position GM has gotten themselves into, I certainly wouldn't take their advice on whether or not to invest, and I wouldn't be looking at what they post on their website to see how they were doing. They evidently thought they were doing well enough they wouldn't end up bankrupt. Turns out what they were thinking wasn't working out too well.

By the way, eventually the automotive crash was bound to happen. Anyone could see it coming. Go back to 1970, we (my family) bought the biggest and best truck Chevy had brand new, and paid a staggering $3500. We had just bought a 3 bedroom two story brick home in a nice neighborhood on 1.5 acres, for about $30K. So the truck barely cost over 1/10 what a house cost. Fast forward to 1994, my wife and I bought a brand new 3 bedroom house on right at an acre, and paid $72K, counting every penny cost. We looked at a new truck, in 1995, and did not buy it because they wanted $32K. So the truck would have cost almost 1/2 what the house cost. And five years ago our house was worth about $100K, and we looked at a new truck, it was almost $44K. When a new truck costs damned near 1/2 what a house costs, you don't have to guess as to why new vehicles aren't selling like fast food.

And those new vehicle prices are WHY you need a credit score of 750 to buy one. Because if you don't make a lot of money and have killer credit, you can't afford the payments. You can buy a NICE House and pay $650 a month with decent credit. And if you buy a nice 1 ton truck, your payments will be about the same, for 5-7 years. When you get the truck paid for, it's worth 1/3 what you paid for it, at best, if you drive it.

And if they don't do something about the prices, it won't matter if you've got excellent credit, if you don't make a ton of money, you won't be able to afford to make the payments.

Like I said, even people with excellent credit are not buying cars right now. Why? Not because they can't get a loan. Because they're concerned about having a job.

I didn't bring the "gloom and doom" here. But I certainly will not hide my head in the sand and say "everything is fine" and "all we need is credit" to fix this absurd fiasco that our economy has become.

With regards to NHRA, I'm not about to abandon it, nor am I proposing that as an idea. But I do not think it is a good idea to just sit by and say nothing when things don't look right. To say the SRAC is "working like it should" is either saying it shouldn't work well at all, or being very generous. When a guy like Woodro resigns from the SRAC, because of how it is working, or how it is not working, and he is not the only one, that should really tell us something. And when NHRA takes control of the AHFS away from the two people who know Stock and Super Stock best, and they don't bother to tell us about that, well, that should tell us something, too. I'm doubting either of those two moves is a real major cost saver for NHRA.

I'm not predicting the end of the world here, not the automotive world, or the NHRA drag racing world. I still plan to go to the races this year, and I'm still working towards another ride. I sent in my renewal, and that includes my competition license renewal.

In any event, I doubt anything is going to happen here, short of some of us agreeing to disagree with others. At least the 1st Amendment still covers that, and so long as we're civil and intelligent, no harm is done. And thanks to Kenny for allowing us to do it here. It is greatly appreciated.

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Kenny,
Nice work on your research. I understand the quota is what they would like to have, but it gives us a base to work with. I wish the whole country was doing as well as New Jersey.

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very nice job ken! i wish more people on here had your attitude about getting out and doing something about whatever is bothering them. beautiful. now lets smile and go race!!!!!!

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Wasn't Houston a total "floodout" 2008 and those who dared got thier rigs stuck for a week or so..or do i mix it up with something else? May not be a good example..

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bsa633

I'm not sure about the conditions at Houston last year. But this year they do have Super Street running at both Houston and Las Vegas. They were not contested at Houston or Las Vegas last year. They did have Pro Stock Motorcyle at Houston. The comparisons between this year and last year are a little skewed.

Last year they had 377 cars at Las Vegas this year they have 416 with 33 of them running in Super Street. Once you factor in the extra category, no shows and a late entry or two the numbers should be about the same as last year. And, given today's economy that is a good thing. I think the car counts at these two races say more about the resiliency and tenacity of the racers than they do about nhra's fiscal condition.That's the good thing about participating in these threads - we get to learn.

The current nhra quota system was put in place to restrict the Sportsman Racers' access to National Events. Mostly because of the new TV schedule, pit spaces, event scheduling etc. Now, it is being described as a wishful number. And rightfully so.

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Remember when NHRA used to have a lot of LIVE coverage from the races? Live finals, sometimes live first round, sometimes even live Pro qualifying or Top Alcohol eliminations on Saturday? Then with oildowns and such, they stopped doing it. Since then, with all the reductions in oildowns, 75 minute turnarounds, etc, why wouldn't they bring it back, now that they have a somewhat streamlined Sunday schedule? No more than eight cars in each sportsman class (except an event with inclimate weather) and an a hour and a half max between Pro rounds. Or is it something to do with ESPN(2)? I also remember NHRA expiramenting with an all day Live, pay per view deal...pay x-amount of dollars, and watch every run down the track on Sunday. My guess there is that NHRA wanted too much of a cut from the cable/satellite companies, so that no longer exists. That, and/or their current contract with ESPN. Seems like it could be a good moneymaker for the financially faultering NHRA.

I don't have anything to add to the "is the current state good or bad'. Car counts are up or down, depending on who you talk to, but it depends on which classes are being rotated out of a particular event. Stock one year, with class, might have 85 cars, the next year may be S/S without class and only draw 60. Some races may or may not have Bikes, Pro Mod, Alcohol or S/Street. Kenny and others brought up the point about all the big motorhomes and stacker trailers. But if a racer(s) have had them for several years now, it's not a fair guage. I guess by the end of the year, it will have a more accurate description of whether things are up or down. I remember a few years ago when gas was 3, 4 or more bucks a gallon, and people were prediciting doom and gloom then, but racers it seems will do whatever it takes to go enjoy their hobby, or profession. I guess it seems to be the case this season as well. Time will tell.

Speaking of quotas, I know they raised them this year. But when you have an eliminator advertised as "128 cars max--Class Winners plus Low ET qualifiers", and you only take 85 entries, whassupwitdat?? Shouldn't they take at least as many entries as there are spots in the field? That would be the same as making the quote for Top Fuel 11 or 12. There is usually around a 10% no-show rate for the quotas/entries, so couldn't you just bump them up a bit? If we didn't have the whole 10 acre circus show that is the NHRA Pro Pit area, you could take a hell of a lot more. I understand the concept of having a VIP/hospitality area for your sponsors, but not right in the pit area. Put them somewhere else, and maybe have a smaller area for some of the VIPS to hang out with in the pit. I don't know how all Nat'l event tracks are layed out. At Columbus, I would have put them where the playground area is (if it's still there). Maple Grove in the field closest to the gate you enter to cross behind the starting line. I'm sure Indy has enough room to give them their own area too. The amount of "stuff" in the pit areas is absurd. Throw out the 30 or so souvenir trailers (again, right in the pit area) to an area somewhere else also.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

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I attended the Phoenix National Event and the T Shirt trailers were down to only about 4 or 5 and the manufacturers midway was next to nothing also compared to years past. I think the economy is hurting the manufacturers as much as anyone else and they are cutting their costs.
With fuel as low as it is right now if you want to travel and race now is the time.
You can get into any National Event you want this year so far with a grade 1. Something unheard of in years past.
Lets Race!!!
My 2 Cents

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Getting back to the original post,maybe the Division 3 rep would consider returning to the position.From what I understand,he resigned because he was not happy with the ruling on the cylinder head volumes for Stock Eliminator.It is obvious that this issue wasn't worth getting so upset over.Currently the NUMBER 1 qualifier at Belle Rose.Good job!

1 38 E/SA Gregory Hill, Louisville KY, '71 Camaro 10.783 12.00 -1.217

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So..................................rry Alan, but you are. Reread my original post. The stuff you are talking about although partly true has little relevance with what I posted. If everyone could finance a car with credit scores 600 to 750, sales would be up 30 to 40%. Now that gas is $1.79 SUVs would be selling good too. So................................................ .........trying to use this economic downturn to promote their political agenda to make electric cars is BS! You guys trying to use the economic downturn to fuel your complaints with NHRA is wrong. Not that the things you say are wrong, but like Colin said just about everyone is down.


I have been a cost savings consultant for the Big 3 auto industry since 1979 (just part of what I do). I have worked with people like Jack Smith, Bob Lutz, Lee Iacocca, Dick Dauch to name a few you might recognize. I went to Dick Dauch's book signing part where Lee gave an excellent automotive industry speech. In 1993, GM wanted me to sit down to strategize with the two guys that were opening the first GM manufacturing plant in China. I have been in 80% of all automotive facilities in North America doing cost savings studies. They make continual progress.


The number one rule of Globalization is that you protect your country's own interest first! Our government is failing to do that. So................................................ ....all the other countries steal our business by manipulating their advantages to the global market. The global manager of Delco gave us a presentation about the GM parts business in 1991. At that time, $5000 of the price of a GM car went to the infrastructure of the US due to taxes. For a similarly based foreign car it was $800. The US auto industry is paying $1500 per car for health insurance. Non-US is less than $800. So................................................ ...shouldnt we level the playing field? Read link below:


http://www.americanprogress.org/issu..._industry.html


It is like me trying to build my B/S 69 TA from Alf Weibe while trying to run 40 year old castings against Edelbrock headed BBC, BBF and upgraded casting Chrysler motors. Not till they level the playing field. I am already married to a blond costing double as I can only afford so much!

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I agree with that its better to view the glass as half full than half empty but you need to keep that in check and with the reality of what is happening around the world these days. At 35 yrs old this is the first time I have been part of an economic melt down so may be I am a little more conscience then I should be. But in reality things are not good.

Yes people are out there spending, (I was at a Porsche dealership last week and people were buying cars like they were giving them away), people are racing, going out, vacations etc… But what happens when the corporations that help keep the pro racers on the track start to pullback on sponsorships? I have heard more than once that the France family in Nascrap is helping support teams so there are full fields. Yes sportsman racers are the backbone, yes the NHRA needs us, but without the pro’s at the track I do not think you will have an NHRA. Every day you read more and more companies letting employees go, cutting budgets, in other forms of motorsports companies like Honda, Kawasaki, Audi, and Peugeot have limited their racing events. GM can not afford to and probably would get a lot of crap from the government if it supported a racing series or teams with stimulus money. In the past month you have had some of the parts suppliers shutting their doors. Some people I speak to think I am insane because I always bring up what will happen to racing in these times (they think there are more important things to worry about) and I know racing has gone through its ups and downs but things are changing and I think a lot of changes are here for good. Will there be an NHRA around when my 4yr old son is older, I don’t know(who knows if we will have race tracks with these dam “green” lovers) but I do not think they can afford to run their non for profit organization as they have in the pass without some major set backs or going out of business.

I really think Kenny Knowling and the ADRL have the ticket, like someone said you get 40,000 people in there and they buy shirts, hot dogs, water etc.. and the track owners are happy. May be we need to do that at Divisionals?

As far as GM, I said many years ago they will put themselves out of business because of the Unions but a lot of people said I was nuts, and don’t tell me the unions did not help this situation!!!!!


Just remember “everyone dies, but not everyone lives”!!!

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Do you think if you say this enough times it will become fact? Blame workers for a company's problems? General Motors is in financial trouble because of the UAW? pfttttttt.

pS

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Paul i am not saying they are all to blame for GM's destruction but when you are paying for your grandpas, dads, sisters, brothers aunts uncles dogs pension and medical , eventually its going to cost the company. Not to mention the greed of the unions wanting everything and anything. I am not saying people should not be compensated and taken care of for working, but if you think that the UAW did not help sink part of the ship, pass me some of what you are smoking!!!!!