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-   -   New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=16648)

Bruce Noland 03-28-2009 09:03 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Like sticking your head in the sand. With your posterior exposed!

Ditto Alan!

JRyan 03-28-2009 12:33 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
First I'd like to say I take great offense to the comments made by Alan. I'm part of the so called entitled generation along with great young guys like Brett Speer, Mike Mans, and many others racing in stock and superstock today. I don't think I'm entitled to anything and I'm sure the great majority of the young racers today feel the same way. I bust my rear and have two jobs so I can enjoy S/SS racing and pay the bills. I also have a wonderful wife that accepts my passion and helps anyway she can. If class racing as we know it is going to exist beyond the next ten years it's going to take my generation to keep it alive.

Now to get to the cars. I love the new cars and involvement. However I do think the powers that be pulled a fast one on all of us. I don't remember who pointed out the comparison between the 2007 and 2009 Chrysler figures but it's essentially the same motor rated far less. The new car I'm building could possibly run against the Challenger in G. Will I lose? Probably. Is it fair? What is fair anymore.

I respect Bruce Nolands position. He poured a ton of money into a car that should be competitive. Only to find out it may all be for nothing. But also see the other side as well. The cars are legal and people will build them. I do know that trying to constantly change rules and how we should run this way or that way, probably isn't the best thing for class racing either. Nobody has all the answers and I most likely don't have any. That's my three cents worth.

Rick Ryan

Alan Roehrich 03-28-2009 12:37 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
If the description does not fit you, then there's no reason at all for you to be offended, since it was quite obviously not directed at you, nor does it describe you. But it does fit a great deal of the later generations, I deal with them on a daily basis, and make no apologies for my assessment of their attitude and their agendas. People with that attitude will not save anything.

JRyan 03-28-2009 12:55 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
You may deal with people like that on a daily basis. How many of them are directly related to the discussion of stock and superstock. That is what we're talking about, is it not. Not the people we all deal with on a day to day basis. I too deal with lots of people everyday in my job from multiple generations that could fit the description you made. But I don't generalize or point out the flaws in them or their generation esspecially in a place of public discussion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Sometimes peoples opinions should also be kept to themselves. That statement can go for me or anyone else in the world.
I never asked for an appology. Didn't expect one. Just offended by the generalization that the younger generation is essentially a bunch lazy crybabies. They are out there, but at least in the part of the country I'm in they are out numbered. Let's get back to the real topic at hand. If there is one.

Rick Ryan

Alan Roehrich 03-28-2009 01:04 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRyan (Post 111992)
You may deal with people like that on a daily basis. How many of them are directly related to the discussion of stock and superstock. That is what we're talking about, is it not. Not the people we all deal with on a day to day basis. I too deal with lots of people everyday in my job from multiple generations that could fit the description you made. But I don't generalize or point out the flaws in them or their generation esspecially in a place of public discussion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Sometimes peoples opinions should also be kept to themselves. That statement can go for me or anyone else in the world.
I never asked for an appology. Didn't expect one. Just offended by the generalization that the younger generation is essentially a bunch lazy crybabies. They are out there, but at least in the part of the country I'm in they are out numbered. Let's get back to the real topic at hand. If there is one.

Rick Ryan
Rick, the comment was directed at who ever it was who told Bruce that he needed to move on, take his lumps, and let other people have their way. That attitude happens to be pretty common among the later generations.

GUMP 03-28-2009 02:04 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Do they have to build 50 of each combination for these to be legal or just 50 total?

I really wish that they had used a more "production" style motor in these cars.

X-TECH MAN 03-28-2009 02:08 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 112003)
Do they have to build 50 of each combination for these to be legal or just 50 total?

I really wish that they had used a more "production" style motor in these cars.
Years ago the number was 100 had to be built. I dont remember when it was reduced to 50. I think that is a major problem. If more were avaliable to the public then more would become race cars and they would have more of a chance to become factored sooner.

jimi 03-28-2009 07:11 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 111994)
Rick, the comment was directed at who ever it was who told Bruce that he needed to move on, take his lumps, and let other people have their way. That attitude happens to be pretty common among the later generations.

with all the talk about these cars i think it is great to hear all of the opinions, this is what makes this type of racing great every one has a different angle and approach to there situation. but it does not exscuse the fact that there is still no factory production challenger engines on the books for the 2009 cars ! all of the engines are "crate engines" i cannot race my new 2009 rt 5.7 6 speed challenger with the components that chrysler built into the car for street car production use, i guess i will be able to race the old 62 maxwedge with a 500 ci maxwedge and 3705 carbs and a .520 lift cam and call it a 350 hp just because !

Bruce Noland 03-28-2009 11:50 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
1 Attachment(s)
Is this one of the manifolds for the new Challenger?

GUMP 03-28-2009 11:53 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 112072)
Is this one of the manifolds for the new Challenger?
Not with that elbow.

Bruce Noland 03-28-2009 11:55 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Yeah, it looked kinda strange to me too.

Bruce Noland 03-29-2009 08:30 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
2 Attachment(s)
Another Mopar manifold. Are these crate motor manifolds or are they legal for nhra Stock? Click on the picture to enlarge.

jimi 03-29-2009 08:53 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 112086)
Another Mopar manifold. Are these crate motor manifolds or are they legal for nhra Stock? Click on the picture to enlarge.

i am pretty sure those pictures are both of the legal manifolds for the challenger engines, just no elbow for the 6.1 hemi

George Wright 03-29-2009 09:26 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Here is a photo of the 6.1 Hemi in Garlits Drag Pak Challenger. The intake and giant throttle body is what the 6.1 comes with for stock.
http://mprracecars.com/images/garlitsmotor.jpg
There are more photos at http://mprracecars.com.

Bruce Noland 03-29-2009 10:20 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
George,
The second picture I posted must be for the 275 HP motor. Correct???

D.Holly 03-29-2009 10:42 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
The 4510046 manifold is the accepted manifold for the Drag Pack 360 according to the NHRA engine specs.

George Wright 03-29-2009 11:03 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Bruce,
The two Drag Pak Challengers (Garlits and Worford) I saw at MPR were both 6.1 Hemis. I have not yet seen any Challengers with any of the two other engine options.

Bruce Noland 03-29-2009 12:26 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Jimi, D. Holly and George,
Thanks guys. Those intakes look pretty sweet for Stockers.

treessavoy 03-30-2009 11:34 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan roehrich (Post 111927)
that's a common problem with the "later" generations. The same sort of people who figure that at the age of 20-25 they should already have everything their parents had worked until they were 40-50 to attain are exactly the type of people who figure they should be able to go and "buy the right" to be one of the fast guys when the older guys worked for years to get there.

We've now been infested by the "entitled" generations. Rather than being entitled to the pursuit of happiness, they feel they are entitled to happiness itself, with little or no effort.
amen!

treessavoy 03-30-2009 11:58 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
I'm putting a 500ci short block in my Max Wedge car and going NSS racing, you don't have to worry about anything except what you'll have for lunch.

Jim

D.Holly 03-31-2009 05:35 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Jim,
I've been there and done that. Great bunch to race with, and BIG FUN Factor.
Wish I was still able to play with these guys.

Dennis

magnumv8 03-31-2009 06:22 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
That hemi intake may require that elbow to clear the new hoodscoop that NHRA required Chrysler to put on the Challenger to get it certified....the old scoop was a little taller than the final version

cutta 03-31-2009 09:38 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
How about we wait until Indy when the gloves come off in each class. Most these guys are going to have so much pride, they are not going to lift and that will bring the classes back to where they should be. Lets not forget that alot of these AA/S and A/SA guys don't even run their cars hard. Lets see what happens when everybody has to turn up the wick for the sake of their pride.

I question how many guys are sandbagging in all of the high classes like A/SA.


Also on another note, instead putting these guys out of of the class, why don't you guys just make a special production stock class and bring back all of the one off combinations that were never included in stock. L88 Vettes, newer Vettes, Superbirds, 68 Hemi Hurst Darts/Barracudas, and Ford T-Bolts.

Jeff Lee 03-31-2009 11:40 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
That thing gotta Hemi? :D
Them be some purtty impressive spec's!


H.P. Disp. C.R. Ind. Make Casting Intake Lifter RR Head Notes
Manifold cc’s

305 345 12.7 MPI CHRY P5155173 P5155184 H/R 1.60 71.7 A

275 360 11.4 MPI CHRY P4510046 P4510046AB H/R 1.60 56.0 B,C

385 370 12.6 MPI CHRY P5155173 P5155184 H/R 1.60 71.7 A


Throttle Bore Size
A/B – 1.75 inch

C – Aluminum roller tip rocker arm




H.P. Disp. Deck Cl. Piston Height Vol Valves Cam Lift Springs Gasket

305 345 .000 Dome .205 16.4cc 2100/1600 584/552 Beehive .026
OEM Diamond piston #46191
275 360 .004AB Flat w/ Notches .000 6.8cc 2020/1600 490/490 Outer w/Damper .040
OEM piston #51021
385 370 .0135BD Dome .137 14.8cc 2100/1600 584/552 Beehive .039
OEM Diamond piston #46192

Head Castings
305 345 05037369AA

375 360 P5153847

385 370 05037369AA

X-TECH MAN 04-01-2009 05:03 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutta (Post 112561)
How about we wait until Indy when the gloves come off in each class. Most these guys are going to have so much pride, they are not going to lift and that will bring the classes back to where they should be. Lets not forget that alot of these AA/S and A/SA guys don't even run their cars hard. Lets see what happens when everybody has to turn up the wick for the sake of their pride.

I question how many guys are sandbagging in all of the high classes like A/SA.


Also on another note, instead putting these guys out of of the class, why don't you guys just make a special production stock class and bring back all of the one off combinations that were never included in stock. L88 Vettes, newer Vettes, Superbirds, 68 Hemi Hurst Darts/Barracudas, and The Ford Thunderbird.
Id say not very many are sandbagging if they ever ran Top Stock or class at INDY. The L88's, and I assume you mean the Ford T-Bolts (Thunderbirds?) are already in stock.

cutta 04-01-2009 07:47 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN (Post 112577)
Id say not very many are sandbagging if they ever ran Top Stock or class at INDY. The L88's, and I assume you mean the Ford T-Bolts (Thunderbirds?) are already in stock.
If they are allowed in, I've never seen one in my years of watching and following stock. If it like you say and no one is sandbagging at Indy, then gloves will come off and we will see how fast some of these cars really are.

Alan Roehrich 04-01-2009 08:28 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
The gloves will not come off at Indy, people will "take a knee" at Indy just like anywhere else, especially if they do not own the car. Besides, the air at Indy is rarely good enough to yield killer ET's. So they'll only need to win by a fender in what will be decent air at best.

Superfan1 04-01-2009 09:35 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutta (Post 112601)
If they are allowed in, I've never seen one in my years of watching and following stock. If it like you say and no one is sandbagging at Indy, then gloves will come off and we will see how fast some of these cars really are.
I have never seen either one in Stock either, although I have seen a few T-bolts in SS, but they are both in the Classification guide for Stock. The 1969 L88 Vette was made legal for Stock on 1/10/05. The Stock HP factor is 440, and the weight break is 7.29 which means you would have to add weight to make the AA/S and AA/SA 7.50 class minimum. The T-bolt has a Stock HP factor of 420, and the weight break is 7.63. You can check it out at the NHRA website.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, Ct.

X-TECH MAN 04-01-2009 09:44 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfan1 (Post 112624)
I have never seen either one in Stock either, although I have seen a few T-bolts in SS, but they are both in the Classification guide for Stock. The 1969 L88 Vette was made legal for Stock on 1/10/05. The Stock HP factor is 440, and the weight break is 7.29 which means you would have to add weight to make the AA/S and AA/SA 7.50 class minimum. The T-bolt has a Stock HP factor of 420, and the weight break is 7.63. You can check it out at the NHRA website.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, Ct.
The Vette was legal in IHRA back in the 70's. Leon Maranion (spl?) ran AA/SA with a 435 HP Tri-Power (same car he is racing today as a SS/EA) version back in the "stone age" mid to late 70's. The L88 was avaliable for anyone who wanted to build one.

Steve Calabro 04-01-2009 11:32 AM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Terry, It's Miranian! LOL Why was the L88 Vette rated @ 440 not 430 factory rating when it was approved, but never run? Do you think "politics" were involved? LOL!!!!!!

X-TECH MAN 04-01-2009 12:16 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Calabro (Post 112648)
Terry, It's Miranian! LOL Why was the L88 Vette rated @ 440 not 430 factory rating when it was approved, but never run? Do you think "politics" were involved? LOL!!!!!!
Probably politics were involved. By the way I found that Corvette for Leon back in 1974. It was an original 427/390 HP Silver car in great shape. I think he paid about $3000 for it at the time.

treessavoy 04-04-2009 03:55 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Holly (Post 112418)
Jim,
I've been there and done that. Great bunch to race with, and BIG FUN Factor.
Wish I was still able to play with these guys.

Dennis

It's a '64 savoy, 440 block, stroker to 500,old set of max wedge heads that had been modified and were no longer legal, x ram, and a couple of carter carbs. Put on some 10.5's and go racing. At least were you are you wouldn't have to travel far.....come on out and let's play.

Jim

D.Holly 04-04-2009 04:30 PM
Re: New '09 Chrysler' specs AA/S thru G/S
 
Jim,
Sounds similar to my combination as I raced it. 440 + .030, stroker crank, Bull Dog aluminum heads, Max wedge intake with 3705 carbs.
4.56 geared Dana in a 64 Savoy. 10.5 slicks on 10 inch torque thrust wheels.
Best et's were10.40's at 128.
Dennis


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