Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Not sure why there is even a debate on this one? If you are in class is "A" and you come in at 8.51 after the math, you are in the WRONG class, end of story.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Chuck, you are making my point! If the AHFS is going to work properly then some loopholes need to be closed.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Granted, this is in an odd class (with a 3lb break!). But, if I pull all of my ballast out, I can just get under the max weight for my 'natural' class (A/FS). At which point I will still be over 500lbs(!) heavier than the min weight. There is no way I can ever -legally- get the car down to min wieght (less than 2400lbs w/driver).

I ran one race in A/FS last year at 20lbs under max with -no ballast-. What happens if the scales are off a bit and I roll across at 5lbs over? Do I get tossed?

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Make new weight stickers with the minimum weight and the maximum weight showing on the sticker. If you are anywhere between the two you are good to go.The slower classes with (example )22.99 and more (no maximum) How would you regulate (maximum) on those classes? ( That's another can of worms ) if you regulate all the other classes .

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

You are an A car 385 h.p.....you have to weigh 3,250,....you cross the scales at 3,450, thats B weight.the run doesen't count 'cause you in da wrong class.Go back thru tech or take the weight out.Isn't life simple?

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Let's say we eliminate the HP factor and just go weight to cubic inches. There is no more refactoring of the cars then. You have to weigh what the cubic inches you are claiming, simple and easy!
Casey Miles
248H E/S ("F" the 4 HP)

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Hi Casey, So do we let any manufacture car run the best head available? early pontiac can a Big Block chevy engine? or any big block mopar can now run a Hemi head regardless if a factory option. What your saying is to scrap Stock and turn it into Modified eleminator. I know chevy 350 guys don't like running against 351 Clevelands heads up with that same factor. The ford would win every time, beacuse of a superior cyl head. This situation is not simple. about turbo charged cars? thats another ball game. A revisit to modified eleminator might be cool. Boss 302 powered Mavericks. C/SM 67 chevy II's

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

How about you can't run on or over the minmum weight of the next lower class? That might work

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Shoe polish doesn't care how much your car weighs...

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Todd, I'm not trying to be smart about it, but I'm racing against 351 Fords in my class as it is. I only have 302 cu. inches. The Fords have to weigh the same, they have 5 speed transmissions, 49 cu inches more and also fuel injection. I think that it would even it up if they had to carry the same weight to cubic inch then an ill run HP factoring by NHRA that deems them and others to run the same class as older cars that have been around the block. Just an opinion that I think others racers may want to look at.
Casey Miles
248H E/S ("F" the 4 HP)

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy - Very sorry - If I made your point it was purely unintentional. My sarcasm must be loosing it's edge.
I'm definitely not a member of the AHFS fan club.

Happy trails,

Chuck

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Exactly.Run your car in the wt. range for the class you are teched into.Plain and simple,end of story.

Ed F.

Sorry Chuck,you posted as I was still pecking my post.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

That's where common sense comes in.There are some cars that have a minimum wt. problem.Seems the manufactures got the #s wrong.An issue like that can be resolved to allow the car to be factored correctly,just takes common sense on NHRAs part.
Bob Shaws car would need to be considered a special case due to the fact it can't run as a V car.
In a way I dont envy NHRA tech,reading all the agendas coming out in all these discussions.It's
a matter of the "What's best for ME" and screw everybody else that appears.

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Casey,that sounds like Comp.We dont want to go there do we?

Lee N,It matters when you're hiding an incorrect HP factor.

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

It seems like the people piling on this thread do not seem to have the problem of an overwieght stocker BECAUSE,,,, THEY CAN"T GO FAST ENOUGH TO GET H.P.
I will use myself as an example.
Bought my car 5 yrs ago It WAS A TURD..Slow IN THE WAY .
Got my *** kicked by Tex Miller .Was not fun.Guess what.I have worked hard .
Spent the Money and then some..Now I am capable of going pretty fast..So now its a problem because I may run too heavy..You guys should worry about yourself instead of picking on people who work hard to go fast with no reward but H.P. and Weight..The problem with the Orlando deal was it was selective and not right ..You can;t change the rules as you go along..You have to treat everyone the same ..Califonia said the Tech guy was wrong Its not in the rule book..But as good racers the guys complied..

That just Sucks
Lets stick with rules in THE BOOK WE ENOUGH ON OUR HANDS
You slow guys should by some Nitrois
Tech Ain't Check ANYWAY.
My 2 cents

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Great post. There are a lot of guys I know that worked hard to go fast and don't want to get horsepower so they will not hurt the other racers who run the same combo but is not as fast as they are. So they add weight to slow their cars down. The last thing they want is to get hp and then have someone across the country calling them stupid on the internet.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

James, you're a smart enough guy to know how to slow your car down without using weight! The pure fact is that the weight rule is written in the book and nobody can read it. A/S is 8.00lbs. to 8.49lbs.ETC. I want to be there when the first racer shows up at the scales with a rulebook and his lawyer and says that he can weigh less than the minimum weight because the weight breaks are only guidelines and if the maximum weight doesn't matter then neither does the minimum!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Why not just back up the timing, it's easier on parts than adding a couple hundred extra lbs. Cheaper too.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I have been trying to get a grip on this issue myself so that I understand it and don't have a problem with weight for my combo in stock....my weight factor is 12.24 which puts me in I/SA.....12.00-12.49 weight break.....I have a classification guide from NHRA that says to take my hp factor times the 12.00 and then add 170 lbs. for the driver for my "minimum" class weight....by doing the same for the 12.49 +170 lbs. for my "maximum"....I can fax a copy of this if someone wants one, I printed it out last Jan.....because the rule book to me is a little vague....like you guys are saying about heavy for the class, I don't think all techs operate from the same page, because I have talked to Glendora and they had to check with the divisions to find out what they have doing on certain issues I have asked about.....

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

see above !!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I read that Danny and agree totally...but it should include that 170lbs and not even mention it.....that is where I was having a problem...when you look at the stocker specs on the spreadsheet now there is a dark grey area(color on my computer) to the right and if you scroll over on it, it tells you the actual weight of your combo now....it didn't used to be there and is easy to miss...BUT it still doesn't add the 170lbs.......

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

BILLY, are you talking about my car ???? (overweight):p

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Am I missing something?
Bob Shaw runs U/SA. Per the rule book the weight break is 20.00 OR MORE. There is no max weight, only minimum. T/SA is 19.00 to 19.99. There the max weight would apply, moving him into U/SA if he's over 19.99. It seems the only weight rule would be safety related.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy -Billy -Billy -- I'm really glad for you that its Spring .Why you say -- well maybe you can go plant some crops or something as this stuff is making you nuts (you've always been close) .After sixty some posts and half a zillion views it boils down to this -- who cares if some guys (or gals) want to run heavy ? Who does it hurt ? Why does it matter ? See you this weekend ........I'll be the one with big arms (from lifting weights) .

PS-- You can try like Hell but they'll never ever let you rewrite the rulebook . Been there - done that !

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Actually, it would still be an issue even if there was no such thing as HP factoring. You're trying to make the argument into more than it is.

So... their HP factor isn't correct? :rolleyes:

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

you know after thinking that the weight listing was only a guide to what class your car "naturaly" fit and then what classes was available for one to run,,,not that Im in favor of it at all,,,,its does clearly list that a class is from a "certain point" to a "certain point",,,,again not that Im in favor of it at all,,,,if a car is illegal because too lite, wouldnt it also make it illegal if it was too heavy???

I looked at Ihra`s list of "no no`s" and it dont say anything about being throw out if your too lite,,,and likewise about being too heavy

This doesnt really even concern me as Im usually at min weight cause my little car has hard enough time as it is but it really does make sense,,,,,,,for me,,,no big deal,,,,Im a reforming bracket racer (LOL) who thinks any additional rules just complicates everything but for those who really thinks the adjuster needs "adjusted"......if cars dont run the correct weight,,,if cars are mis factored,,,if some runs arent counted,,if cars are allowed to run multiple classes to avoid heads up runs,,,whatever system they replace it with---WONT WORK.....so bring up a dust storm about max weight is really a moot point

but one thing I am curious about,,,,how did this go un noticed for the last 30 years???

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Hey Jack
You got my vote!!! You just went to the top of my Christmas Card list!!! LOL

Chuck Porter

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

This thread must had made some people soft in the head.In the discussion about the CJs there was an uproar that they were way under factored.There was word that they were running way heavy,obviously to slow them down.Who did it hurt.So far no one.Just wait till you start getting heads up runs,then it affects others.The common attitude on here is that " hey,if it doesn't directly affect me I don't give a ****".
We have only ourselves to blame.If we had some more people with Billy's integrity we could make some headway with the money jackals in Glendora.

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

The name of this post should really be "OVERWEIGHT DRIVERS",or "UNDERWEIGHT CARS."

I will use my car ,for example,since I know it best.My factored horsepower is 360.To run D/SA,the weight break is 9.5-9.99.My CAR needs to weigh between 3,420 pounds and 3,596 pounds.My CAR does weigh between this range.However,when I get in it,it does not meet the "MAX WEIGHT"

Now what if the car weighed 3340 pounds?
The car would be right on the minimum weight for D/SA with a 250 pound driver.However,the car would technically be "too light" for the class according to some of the logic in this thread.Maybe they need to start weighing the car/driver separate? LOL!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Maybe NHRA should up the weight for the driver,but how high do you go?200/225/250/300/400.I'm
serious,where do you adjust it to?I'm of the opinion that enough adjustment(removing odds and ends from the car) can accomodate most drivers.
There is no way to remove more weight from your 442?Spare tire,weight box etc?

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Oldtimers: Do you rember when the classification guide meant something? If your car showed in guide that it broke 14.23 in a 14-14,99 class that is what you had to weigh...no additional weigh for driver no adjusting up or down a class.. Why do you think so many people drove 4 doors or wagons or biscaynes or impalas because they were better class break cars. They should let the classification guide be the guide...If a V8 car breaks 22, lbs let it run V if it is akiller combo ahfs will catch it eventually. I rember selling a perfect 68 camaro convertible for a 70 camaro coupe because it made class better by 100 lbs.Back then there was a commitement to a combo..Not well if this doesn't go fast enough i will just add the weight and drop a class.I trully believe that people like Bob Shaw and Billy and Neil Smedley that came through that era have mastered the research needed to develop competative combo's. Just think how easy it would be at the scales no longer searching for loose ballast...worrying if you are overweight..Racers would have to back to vehicle prep...Who really says a real racer weighs 170 lbs. anyway. So as I started saying 14.23 times 250 hp means car and driver 3557minumum maximum doesn't matter cause the car can only make the 14 lb class. How many have I confused here is quite simple isn't it. DD

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I understand post but will agree with part you can't be 900lbs heavy and run class but I'M OVER 170 (only by 2lbs.) and can't get to P/SA without gutting my car. I ALREADY KNOW I'M PHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT'S UP mad hawian!!!!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Ok, so everyone who knows me is aware of the fact that i was 345 pounds at Rockingham in the fall. The min weight then was 3414. The lightest i could get the car was 3575. So because im (the driver) is heavy i would get kicked out? What if i wanted to run SGT/C instead of D. Then i would be real heavy. Looks like its time for both IHRA and NHRA to start allowing alum. seats, alum. driveshafts, move the fuel cell up front, etc etc so us fat guys wont get tossed. Oh im under 300 pounds now, so i guess im safe. lolololololololololol

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I'm confused. You do know weight calculations do include 170#'s for the driver, right? 360HP x 9.5 + 170 = 3590 minimum race weight or 360HP x 9.99 + 170 = 3766 (maximum may or may not be enforced; subject of discussion). What the driver weighs is of little relevance.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Scott: If you are saying you are 172 lbs. you better put other foot on scale...DD

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

In the 2009 NHRA rulebook on page 109 under FRAME:4.


WEIGHT

Class and classification weight are determined WITHOUT driver weight.

What do they mean by this then?

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Jack, I've always admitted to being crazy! Just don't ever think for one minute that I'm stupid. I am also very good at reading and understanding the written English language. The powers that be in Glendora have written the rules. They are in black print on a white background. If THEY cannot enforce or understand their own rules then THEY had better change THEIR rules so that THEY can enforce or understand them. I have told many, many Tech Inspectors over the years, and I quote, "You make the rules, I will play by your rules, You remember your rules!"
I said something to an NHRA tech guy some time ago and he brought it to my attention (to my suprise) at Gainesville. I told him that if NHRA chucked all of the rules and said that from now on everybody will be racing wheelbarrows full of rocks then I would be at the next race with a wheelbarrow full of rocks! Maybe the way the rules are being enforced now I should bring a wheelbarrow full of foam rubber rocks and my lawyer!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Just as a point of comparison for this threadI thought that I would check out the weight difference between the min. and max. weight on some popular combos.
69 Camaro 396/405 in A/SA, 198lbs. from min. to max.
98 Camaro 350/341 inD/SA, 167+lbs.
02 Camaro 346/364 inC/SA, 178+lbs.
69 Nova 350/280 in G/SA, 137+lbs.
Just stating a point.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

You should consult page 109 further down under WEIGHT. Last sentence "all cars are weighed with driver"

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

the weight breaks in the rulebook are used to classify the car, and tell you the minimum weight you can be.
I don't think any reference is made to maximum weight. The only other references to weight have to do with how much weight you can add to your car.

Danny waters idea of the min/max weight on the stickers would be the only way to remedy this.