Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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Myron has always been the Ihra guy here And thats ok I run the Ihra and Nhra I like what the NHRA has to offer better for my money But neither IHRA or NHRA should water down what we do as class racers Heads up has to be part of what we do or what is any of this worth |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
i see your point mark....but IHRA thinks otherwise for SPECIAL programs....the moser shootout i can deff see why not....22.5k for the winner you could lose first round by a heads up run in class....where would the point be for the travel to that race...then if you win 2 rounds of your class and go right into running a super rod car or top sportsman car...so i can see there reasonings for making it even for every one on that level....
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Mark,
I understand your thinking. But the dial-in deal only applies to the 3 "invitational" races mentioned and one has to deal with heads-up runs throughout the rest of the year to get to them. Being that they try to make it easier for the "little guy" for the sake of car counts and competiveness, they compromised a bit. This is encouraging for the slower racers who do make it through the "mine field" of faster, like-classed cars for a shot at the championship. But on the other hand, with the variety of classes available, there are not that many classes that have more than a few cars in them. If their plan attracts more crossovers and new racers, there will be more heads-up runs during the season. While I have picked up some ET with my current engine builder, Larry Whitley, I can't afford to get into a money/HP battle with anyone. My continued racing depends on doing well and getting most of my spending back through winning, sponsors or selling parts. It's a matter of survival so I can't put much emphasis on being a top qualifier or guaranteed class winner. I like going faster within the rules and make improvements when I can, but I have to win rounds first. A lot of other racers also have to set their priorities. The championship format is not my favorite, but I understand that the compromise can help bring out more racers and hopefully help IHRA grow as a viable option for class racers. The less options there are for class racing, the more leverage NHRA will have. At IHRA, you have the opportunity to dial-in, or run heads-up if the ladder falls that way, at all national events. In NHRA, you may not have the grading points, not make the qualifying cut despite running under or not even be able to have a chance to race, dial-in or heads-up, because they leave out your class alltogether at a particular event! Although I may go a couple times a year, weekly bracket racing lost it's appeal a long time ago. Same higher fees, small, stagnant payouts, late night/early AM finishes, less exposure and sponsor opportunities, trans-brakes allowed, some tracks I won't go to because of track prep and too many street tires, etc...... Damn, I got carried away and gotta go shopping! |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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Myron And there lies the difference between bracket racing and class racing You can bracket race any weekend at several tracks in many parts of this country We spend $$ to go class racing and I for one dont want it messed with If so and it gets any worse there will be 2 stockers being sold by me You know it is simple it costs money to do what we do and not every one can afford it So do we water down what we do so everyone can afford it? And I am not the fastest guy out there Many would beat me in a heads up But I want that chance at every race Not just a high end bracket race.... |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Hi Mark, how's it going. You missed a great cookout party at the Dutch. Say Hi to the gang, Paul.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but with IHRA you can pull up to the gate and pay to enter a national event. No grade points or anything like that. One difference in record runs is IHRA wants you to show up torn down then they will check it and seal the engine. NHRA you make the runs and then tear down. ED
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
I think those that want to stick with the NHRA feel it's a prestigious sanctioning body over the IHRA. People say the NHRA has more to offer. I question that. I think those diehard Sportsman racers in NHRA want to run at the same events that Larry Dixon, John Force or BG DADDY Don Garlits run at (It makes them feel important). They say more exposure, more exposure to what TV? Just so they can say to someone that I run at the same events that John Force does (BIG F-IN deal). I guess that makes some people feel good. I thought all of us Sportsman racers hated the BIG BOYS. I guess not.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Thats Marks point. He wants to race where a good fast car can be as important as a good driver. Heads up's are very Important to him, and a part of NHRA racing that he likes.
I'd run IHRA events if they were close to me, but they are not. They are a fine organization and have very good racers racing it, But they are much more bracket orented races with barely a heads up to be found. If you showed up with a FarmAll tractor they would have a class for it :). Way to many classes in IHRA. If I'm going to support a bracket type format, It will be the ECSSA that Dave Ley and Bill Holmes run. Close to my house, great payout, and great people that you race with and against. Quote:
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
NHRA is a great place to race if you live in New Jersey ! You can even tow into Pa. 3 times a year to the Grove.Sometimes I even do this.
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I still can't understand why some people won't go to an IHRA race because of the "no heads-up" clause at the invitation-only World Finals.
There are still heads-up possibilities at all of the IHRA national and divisional events plus a few class eliminations. I'm sure that there have been many event winners, IHRA as well as NHRA, who did not have any heads-up races through the course of eliminations. I'm also sure that it did not dilute their satisfaction or status of their accomplishment, which, for most, is the ultimate goal at an event. But I do know of racers who have the resources and put most of their emphasis on being a top qualifier or winning class, particularly at Indy. If that's their goal, fine. But sportsman racing has always been a compromise and the handicap system has been an integral part of it for decades. It's been a necessary part to allow more racers to participate and keep the Stock and SS alive. The World Finals are a shootout for qualifiers who have already run the gauntlet of possible heads-up runs to make it there. Once they have earned a spot, IHRA has provided them an incentive to attend and still have a shot at a world championship based on their skill, not their already depleted wallet. Many people can't afford to try & fight all year to get a spot then see that there are several faster cars in their limited field. The bottom line is getting more racers to participate so the sportsman classes can survive. So this format that IHRA is trying with the final race only "compromise" is better than not having a Stock or SS class at all. I appreciate their attempt at trying to raise their car counts so they can keep Stock and SS in their programs and keeping the door open and more affordable to participate - WITH heads-up runs in regular and class eliminations until the invitation-only World Finals. More cars = more sponsors = more contingency and for a smaller initial investment. |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
I think it would also rule out someone borrowing a faster car if they would have a "heads-up" first or second round.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
One reason there are no heads up in SHOOTOUT races is so that a SHOOTOUT competitor cannot borrow a real fast class car to insure a round win during the SHOOTOUT competition. Example = 8 SHOOTOUT cars in stock and say there is a b/sa in the SHOOTOUT and you can go borrow a friend's b/sa that would assure you a win by having a heads -up run. The ladder is posted in advance to show who you run and would make it easy for you to borrow a car to at least get you a first round win in the SHOOTOUT. Now ,on our regular race format you will have heads -up runs just as NHRA has.You got to understand this is SPECIAL Programs that are "no heads-up.It's kinda like lifting on your qualifing run to try to place yourself on the ladder to try to get a by-run or even try to have a heads-up with someone in your own class to insure you a so-called" free "round (unless you screw up and go red or leave way late).I hope that you guys and gals will give us a try . I know we are not NHRA ,but we are not trying to be.Come by and see us at tech or staging lanes and say hi ! We would be happy to have you here at IHRA.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Danny we've tried to tell them its only for SPECIAL programs but they don't understanf that because what has NHRA done thats special for them....no great programs for there sporstman except jegs all stars ...all they have done it seems like is raise allot of the sportsman fees...IHRA offers us the sportsman 2 div.. races on a weekend and even a few triple headers with 2 div.. raced and a sports natl..now who could ask for anyhting more for a sanctioned event...pretty damn good to me....its like i read in another post about racer getting truned away at a natl race in houston...what kind of buisness is that ....IHRA welcomes all..come and enjoy a great weekend of fun and racing....
If you want to win a natl. by 4 or so heads up runs stay with NHRA |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Ihra takes more skill? Thats funny right there I don't care who you are.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Geez guys lets not beg these N racers to come race IHRA, I have several freinds that will only race NHRA, never once did I ask them why.Each racer has his or hers own racing program that they like to run, are they wrong not to try IHRA? don't know but it seems as though all the appeals to them are falling on deaf ears, and hey that's OK. I'm sure if someone asked me to go to something that I wasn't sure I wanted to go to I'd think up any excuse to keep from going.I think after reading all the "excuses" here it's obvious for the most part their not interested. As for me I just finished a new car last fall so I could race with either N or I got my lic. for both so I'll go where it fits my plans best.Joe
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Not begging ,just suggesting since so many un-happy racers are talking about selling and quiting . (that's just what our sport needs). Still welcome if anyone wants to come, don't matter who you race with.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Danny,
You are doing the right thing, starting a war of words helps no-one.. We all love to race or we wouldn't be doing it... This weekend at MIR , IHRA is having a double race weekend... Just like the old days , a one day race on sat, & one on sunday.. if you can't make both at least try to make one of them.... Also Friday afternoon there is a Test n Tune for $ 30 bucks ...From 4 to 9 PM ... How can you beat that price.. Weather is calling for 65-70 temps and sunny thru sunday.... MIR is always fast and well maintained and is run by racers..... Come on down and join the fun.... Try it you won't be Sorry ............. |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
I live 25 min. from Etown (NJ) and 35 min from Atco (NJ)..Central DIV 1 NHRA, but I have been racing IHRA for the past 6 years. I enjoy it and IHRA helped me with any literature I needed when I was setting up my sponsor proposals. At the tracks the anouncers go out of their way to give anouncements regarding my sponsors. Thanks to their help I have not paid for racing in 6 years. IHRA Damn Proud of it.
SS/EM 161 Quickrod 161 |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Nothing better than starting the season at the "Creek".We'll be there with both cars ,beer ,margaritas , and food.That is "God willing and the Creek don't rise"....[Pun intended]
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Would you guys stop running NHRA tomorrow if they said the World finals were no-heads up, but all the other races during the year were heads-up.. I didn't think so, remember you first have to win a race to even attend those special finals... It does effect one round during the regular season, nothing changed... Someone please correct me if I am wrong ..... No, its not perfect , but nothing today is ? It beats staying home, looking at your car just sitting there ... If its a traveling distance issue, thats a different problem ?
Mark, you have two races right there at NED , does that mean you won't attend ? I think those are not even effected by no-heads-ups ...As I Said the no-heads-up only effect the seperate top 8-10 racers in the finals... Lets go racing, weather is great.... |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
1/4 mile style !!!!!!!! Well said Dave.....
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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David as I said I race both Nhra and Ihra But I think you know that and this is your way of making a point I respect you and your son Dean so lets not make this personal ok... I will be at all 3 races (1st time offered by the way) in September now let me think wasnt it 3-4 years ago IHRA took the division (pro am) race away from Epping?? If I remember right it was the southern guys who didnt want to travel all the way up north?? So David since that race is about 15 minutes from your sons house will we see you in Epping for the 3 races? Things that make you think .... |
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Look I want to make this very clear
I am not anti IHRA NHRA offers more to race for what I like But I race where and when I can But I am tired of the same old Ihra guys getting online and pushinf the IHra Both Nhra and Ihra have many problems they need to work on Its just for my money the NHRA has more for what I am looking for I look foward to the Ihar races at Epping I also look foward to all the Ihra racers who have posted here being at Epping..... the best divison 1 track in the country(really Epping is the best Ihra track in the world) So lets see out of all you IHRA guys that have posted here who will be at Epping in SeptemberI look foward to seeing you there.... |
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Mark , i guess i am a little partial to the IHRA since i do work for them (8 years or so) . I am not trying to trash NHRA .My son and i do run some close events with them. I am just a person that enjoys what i do ,but sometimes it gets very discouraging on here listening to a lot of you guys complain so much,. I'm not perfect and no one else is either.For some reason you have took my meesage wrong .I am not on here to bash anyone or any sanction. I know we have things at IHRA that i may not agree with , but i just go with the flow.If i am at Epping i will be working .If you go, come by tech and say hello as i would like to meet you .Maybe when tech closes we can sit down for a little bit and chat over a cold beer or two..Oh, i have a stocker also and it is not the fastest but i don't care i am still having fun even if i get all 4 doors blowed off once and a while.(lol ) /hope to see you soon. good luck where ever you race.PS did not intend for this to offend anyone ,if so i apologize.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
I race BOTH NHRA and IHRA.I look at them like Coca Cola and Pepsi.I am NOT a cola drinker,but if you are thirsty,either one can quench your thirst.
I agree that both of them have room to improve,but they both are good options to have when you race a Stock Eliminator car.I am glad that I can drive one hour West and go to Byron,or drive one hour South and go to Joliet.A few years ago,IHRA tried to raise the payouts to try and attract more cars.In Division 5,this did not work.I don't know what the answer is,but they certainly try. If you live relatively close to an IHRA event and elect to NOT attend any of their races BECAUSE the final SPECIAL race has NO heads up races in Stock,then you probably wouldn't attend if they had free entry with $1000 cash to all first round losers either. I am glad that I have a choice.I feel bad for the folks in the Western part of the country who don't have many options.If more people would give IHRA a try,I think they could expand their contingency programs and track sanctions. |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Mark,
Just incase you weren't their ,I have towed to the Epping race three times in the last 8 years ... So I do travel for racing alot.... I hope you will be attending the Points race on May 1-2 and the National event in Oct. at Va. VMP .... They are both NHRA races.. Yes, I will be coming to at least one and maybe both races at NED, hope to see you there and at Va.. Its all about having choices... Thank god we have them. Its never personal.............enjoy, |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Here is a good example of the reason I favor IHRA:
The first NHRA race that I ever ran in Stock was last year at Cecil County. I weighed the car before the first pass and came up 10lbs over. Get to the scales after the first run I come up 5 lbs light. No big deal, just tossed off the sheet, I'll put some weight in. SO I THOUGHT! The lady running the scales got very nasty with me about it. That kind of attitude over me being light just wasn't called for. Quite frankly, I was fine with being light. Got a time shot, and go put some weight in it... No big deal. I can't say that one single official had a very good attitude with me all weekend. And I was happy go lucky because the car ran better than it ever had before. I would much rather race where the officials get just as excited as you do when you make a killer run. |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Same old **** different day. Where did this post get us? No place just like every other time it comes up. Some NHRA racers just don't like the bracket racer attitude when it comes to STK & SS that it’s just a bracket race. That’s the biggest problem most NHRA racers have with IHRA. With all the classes in IHRA some racers say it’s just like going to your local bracket track and racing with STK and SS numbers because performance is rarely a factor. There are still racers that thrive on making there cars run faster then the guy in the next lane in the same class. I’m not saying I don’t like IHRA, I just feel that STK & SS needs a performance factor because with out it, it’s just bracket 1. Which IHRA already runs at most national events? The problem is IHRA needs CM and those other classes for STK & SS to survive because of lower car counts. So what do you do? IHRA has done a great job with what they have to work with and is a great place to race if you choose to.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Same old **** different day. Where did this post get us? No place just like every other time it comes up. Some NHRA racers just don't like the bracket racer attitude when it comes to STK & SS that it’s just a bracket race. That’s the biggest problem most NHRA racers have with IHRA. With all the classes in IHRA some racers say it’s just like going to your local bracket track and racing with STK and SS numbers because performance is rarely a factor. There are still racers that thrive on making there cars run faster then the guy in the next lane in the same class. I’m not saying I don’t like IHRA, I just feel that STK & SS needs a performance factor because with out it, it’s just bracket 1. Which IHRA already runs at most national events? The problem is IHRA needs CM and those other classes for STK & SS to survive because of lower car counts. So what do you do? IHRA has done a great job with what they have to work with and is a great place to race if you choose to.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Re: Epping -- I've made the tow to New England Dragway three times, once from Ohio, and twice from North Carolina. I've also been to San Antonio three times, Tulsa once, Immokalee, FL twice, and have made the NC - Michigan trip numerous times. ...what was the point again? :confused:
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Someone had posted this winter that he chose not to run IHRA "because I don't *want* to". I respect that, because he was honest and up front. But for those that are sitting on the fence, I've tried to make this point before: It is what YOU make it. Get involved. Want lots of heads-up runs? Get a bunch of same-classed buddies together, and go to a race. Have other issues? Become a constituent, and voice your opinion. IHRA has made changes over the years because of racer feedback. Just one example: they didn't start laddering cars until about 2001. YOU made that happen. |
Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Guys with Crate,pure S an GT stockers allready made up there mind = IHRA...for them there isn't a choise.. Location also is a big aspect ofcousre... More NHRA stockers at IHRA races could mean some more headsup for such cars bu not to IHRA-cars.. it would do the exact opposite..and therefore probably less totally too! .IHRA is much frendlier and better.and so on..tech is nicer...(how many have gotten a year off in IHRA last decade?..asking because i have absolutley no clue) We have all seen this debate for the last decade....but the thing NHRA vs IHRA seems to stays the same..
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
How big are the stocker fields at a typical ihra national event? Last year before the economy turned on some people.
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Re: IHRA vs NHRA
Rock 1..stk 67 ss 56
Milan stk 56 ss 45 Budds Creek...stk 50.ss 30 Martin..stk 68ss 43 Rock 2..stk 72 ss 51 those were prob the biggest and not including sports natls....Rock 2 had 39 NHRA legal cars the rest was CM and P/S...pertty even field (not saying all 39 of those run NHRA) |
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